Sooo was Cotto asked the only question that matters or not?

For sure. But was that because of the eye? The wraps? Both? More wraps than eye? More eye than wraps?

In the absence of of stone cold facts, I feel the need to toss some questions around.

 

Word.

And this might sound like a cop out, but I don't really have an opinion. To me, it's all speculation (speculation based on fairly compelling results, but speculation nonetheless)

 

I do think he probably loaded for the first fight. I just think there are other factors to look at when breaking down the rematch.

 

Men have been sent to the death chamber on less, and have avoided the death-chamber on more.

I agree with a sceptical, beyond-a-reasonable-doubt approach.

Pacquaio beat the shit out of Cotto, hitting him as often as Margarito did, with better-timed shots. You yourself have placed a premium, import, on punches landed. This is a Cotto who had come down to, I believe, 145 at that. A Cotto who had the lingering after-effects of a beating by Margarito to deal with.

Yet finished, on his feet, and firing back, and still game, in a fight he had probably lost every second of, beyond the 1st round.

In the Margarito fight, a fight in which he had won 5 of the first 6, or 4 of them at least, he finished cowed, slumped, cowering, waiting for his corner to rescue him, looking like the victim of a minor industrial accident.

We KNOW an attempt was made to load his gloves for the Mosley fight. This is beyond doubt.

 

Well, Margarito is a much bigger man than Pacquiao... and at welterweight, was a significantly bigger puncher going into the Cotto fight. (Whether he was loaded for all those fights will always remain a mystery)

Punches landed aren't as relevant when comparing one fighter to another. You're going to react differently to different fighters with different punches.

I compared the punches landed here because we were comparing two Cotto/Margarito fights.

 

I'm not going on the rematch alone.

Margarito loses 3 out of 4 once the wraps are discovered. He fails to score a KO over this Garcia character.

Cotto loses every second of the Pac fight, it goes almost 12 rounds, he's floored twice, and isn't as badly mangled or as badly cowed.

Cotto wins the rematch.

:dunno:

 

Margarito gets brutally knocked out by Mosley, barely landing a punch.

He doesn't fight for 16 months and looks bad against a scrub.

Pacquiao breaks his eye socket.

Cotto wins the rematch.

:dunno:

Again, in the absence of stone cold facts, this is all speculation. We know Margarito wasn't the same man (eye) going into this Cotto rematch. It could be as clear cut as you're suggesting, but we'll never know for sure.

 

The mosley fight between him and El Siete Ladron is not something I would bring up as evidence that Tony might not have been cheating.

As you say, we will never know for sure.

But better men have been convicted of worse crimes on less evidence.

 

I know what you mean. But then I think of clippings that Margarito spent the Mosley camp cutting weight after living the high life post-Cotto. Stories I read before the Mosley fight.

Either way, I think he should have been banned for life for even trying it once against Mosley. Manny Steward made a great point during the broadcast on Saturday when Margarito was getting his hands wrapped. Marg stopped Garcia, and got him to re-wrap the wrist.

Manny pointed out how focused he was on the process. NO WAY he didn't know what was going into the wraps for that Mosley bout.

 

And that's his only route of escape, that this was all done without his knowing, which is BS in any case, because your hands are the 2nd most sensitive part of your body, apart from your face or your feet. If you get a pea-sized pebble in your shoe, it hurts like hell. If you got plaster in your gloves, gloves which are designed to fit snug, you are going to know it is there.

 

Yep. He's scum.

 

Nah, I value my health. ::

 

steve dave could handle margarito, i dont know how he'd do against a real killer like mexican shirt however.

 

this is a poor point to make because, while I tend to think he knew about the wrap, if he indeed wasn't aware of it, you could bet he'd be very carefull about how his hand are wrapped from now on

 

Maybe but there are levels to it, and Cotto's isn't of the highest caliber. I think guys like Mosley and Margarito deal with the pain better on a physical aspect, but Cotto seems to feel the pain more and therefore is dealing with it more on a mental aspect. Once again, I'm not saying the guy isn't durable. What I'm saying is from the Tito's to the DLH's ect, that when it comes to the elite guys, I've never seen a guy wear their pain on their sleeve as often as the way Cotto does.

 

:laughing:

 

His face is expressive, so we pick up on these things.

I always wondered what sort of faces I would pull if I got hit loaded gloves.

Probably something like this

 

Agreed.

As I said, Cotto is underrated. At one point perhaps he was a bit OVERRATED, I mean he's obviously never been as good as Pacquiao/Floyd etc, but he's an elite fighter for sure, always has been. These days he is underrated.

And like someone else said, he's been stopped by Pacquiao, and someone with loaded gloves. Not really the best indication of being fragile. He took Mosley's shots well, and Shane can punch at 147. His fragility is highly exaggerated.

 

Actually I wasn't talking about the Margarito and Pac fights. Like I said earlier, it was just as evidenced in his fights against Shane and Clottey, 2 fights he went on to win. You keep defending him like I'm saying something overly negative, or untrue. Lot's of fighters have weaknesses, but it's Cotto's ability to fight through his that also makes him great.

 

For me, those fights and several others were more about a lack of stamina than anything else.

The only fights where Cotto really has looked fragile were against Manny and Plasterito, for obvious reasons.

 

cotto looked fragile against torres and corley.

 

I liked Cotto's entrance music referring to Margarito as a CRIMINAL. What's not there to like about Cotto? The guy could have been damaged for life as his personal health took a hit perhaps shortening his career, yet he maintained a positive outlook and is now open for big fights with Chavez jr, perhaps Martinez.

His contempt for Margarito is well justified.