Most despicable fighter in history?

It proves it's obvious enough he did load his gloves, and it's silly to defend this scumbag, even if playing devil's advocate.

Especially the notion that he loaded his gloves for the FIRST time against Mosley, is just laughable.

It would be like if Pacquiao failed a drug test in his next fight, arguing that he probably only just started taking steroids. Obviously common sense would dictate he had been doing it all along, but managed to not get caught.

 

I'm not playing devils advocate. I'm just pointing out other factors that went into the Cotto/Margarito rematch.

Thinking everything through. I don't like jumping to conclusions.

 

Is it not striking that the evidence is at its strongest at the point of our greatest interest, though??

He beat up Cotto in the very fight BEFORE he got caught?

 

Of course it's striking.

But there are a bunch of other factors worth looking at, that's all I'm saying. We're going in circles.

 

sven ottke

 

Tony throwing about 20% fewer shots per round for instance. I'm with you, we can be (really) suspicious, but no more than that.

 

Good one.

 

I can always count on you to be thoughtful, whether we agree or not.

 

(down with clown rings)

 

...and one-eyed glove loaders.

 

:bears:

Tony was throwing fewer punches.......he was still throwing 80% of the punches he had been. Was he causing as much damage? Was he causing 80% of the damage? Was he even causing 50% of the damage that he had been in the first fight??

 

The guy loaded in the first fight. Simple as.

 

Looks that way.

 

Yeah it looks good on paper. Here it is in practice:

 

80% of the punches and 5% of the damage :)

 

PREACH!! PREACH!!!

Jesus, I mean, to listen to some of the people around here, you would think we were lynching the guy for not looking right.

This is not National Enquirer, this is a boxing website, we know this game better than anyone else, we respect the fighters, and we find Margarito guilty.

That is it.

 

Yes, Hut, Mex and myself know the game better than anyone else.

 

So I'm asking, at what point did he start loading his gloves?

Kermit Cintron seems to think it's as far back as their first fight. Given the way Margarito nearly be-eared Lujan, some say that fight.

Others say it began with the Golden Johnson fight, his first after P-Will.

Everyone seems to be satisfied with the belief they were loaded for the Cotto fight, not for the rematch, and the rules played out accordingly. But what about the rest?

Jake LaMotta was caught throwing a fight. So how do we know that any given number of his wins (or losses) weren't also rigged? How do we know it was just the Billy Fox fight? Nobody seems to question that when they immediately jumped at the chance to vote him into the HOF.

Why was Shane Mosley only on steroids/PED's/whatever for the second DLH fight? How do we know he wasn't juiced for the Margarito fight - the one time in YEARS he actually looked good?

 

Whatever the blindfold-chances of getting caught loading your gloves once, the chances compound every additional time you do it. That's the main reason I err on the side of caution in attributing guilt further and further back in his career. It's not like drug cheating where you can rig the odds by paying off a corrupt commission to look the other way or be lax in testing, you potentially wrap your hands in front of people and the other corner's free to wander in. I'd bet allot of money he was loaded for the Cotto fight, given the weird facial damage, but I'm.....agnostic on the issue further back than that.

 

I just can't follow this today....my brain is numb ::

 

Russian Roulette, 1 bullet in 6 chambers. To make the analogy work, spin the barrel after every click so you aren't guaranteed to ever fire the bullet - nonetheless, the odds of blowing your brains compound the more times you play. That's effectively what we do the further back in time we assume Tony's guilt.

 

Didn't Carlos Monzon throw his GF from a balcony

 

Still a better person than Floyd.

 

and he jumped off on her and was injured

 

I fail to see the connection between thrown fights and glove-loading. In LaMotta's case, the fact he's known to have thrown fights does nothing to diminish the legitimacy of his wins, does it?

Margarito made the big mistake of calling into question what possibly may have been legitimate wins on his part.

I'm not too worried about it. The guy cheated and I'm inclined to think it wasn't the first time. He's yet to record a win to suggest otherwise. Period.

He gets credit for his perserverance against Pacquiao and Cotto in the rematch. But that's irrelevant.

 

What's strange is that we haven't heard from more of the fighters Margarito has faced, many of whom are still active and high profile fighters.

Isn't it a failure on the part of boxing writers all over that there's not been more interviews with Martinez, Lujan, Santos, Diaz, etc. in which the truth is sought and reported?

If such interviews exist and I just haven't seen them, then my apologies. But otherwise, you have to wonder whether writers are complicit somehow if they fail to tell the story.

 

Why shouldn't it? He fought in an era when the mob had plenty of say who fought when. So why should we believe that fight was the one time he decided to get in bed with the mob?

I just don't get how we assume the worst for one guy, yet stick our head in the sand when it comes to an era highlighted by corruption.

Everyone is free to think what they want. That's my point. An opinion is one thing. To sell it as fact is another, and that line has been severely blurred, as evidenced by your follow up post

 

This is absurd. Cintron just went on record two weeks ago and really didn't have much to say in the way of validating any claims.

Why should writers interview everyone on Margarito's resume? You have people pointing in different directions on the Cotto fight, one where it's supposedly obvious he cheated. So now, it's our job to go on a witch hunt for his entire career when something from three years ago can't even be settled.

Give me a break.

 

You're all in cahoots.