Most despicable fighter in history?

Thin ice. :nono:

 

speaking of Luis Resto I read he is applying for a license to be the third man on a fighter's corner. I doubt he'll get it.

that documentary "assault in the ring" if fucking sad on many levels.

 

Just remembered that the commission provided the pad for the first Cotto fight. Cotto's team ( and the commissioners ) would have to be some serious morons to miss the pad's switch if it occured. We're talking about some world class negligence and incompetence here.Makes me swith back slightly on the didn't do it side.

 

Thing is, if you have the right stuff ( and not dumb ), it's pretty much impossible to fail a scheduled drug test. Only way to get caught is if the Feds find you on the customer's list of a provider.
Loading gloves requires that you do it in front of many people watching specifically for that. If Margarito indeed did managed to do it consistently over his career, in that many high profile fights, vs some hall of famer trainers such as Manny Steward ( I know he probably wasn't the one wathcing Margarito wrapping his gloves but you have to assume that someone from his ''team'' would be very, very knowledgeable ) then something is more then seriously wrong with boxing.

And people keep speaking about how MArgarito looked awfull in his loss to Mosley. But what about Mosley then ??? Why did he looked so good vs Tony, yet so bad in his next fight ( ok, 1 year later but still ) vs PBF when random drug testing was implemented??? ( and please, don,t tell me it was only a question of style ). Maybe the Marg fight was simply Mosley's swan song but I find it sickening that so much dirt is slung at Margarito yet Mosley's and other's who were caught cheating are practically given a freebie.

 

Does it follow, though, that you wouldnt load them for your world title shot, against a young, unbeaten rival, but then abruptly decide its a good idea for your next bout, against a way over-the-hill, near 40-year-old underdog?

Not to me. And this rematch with Cotto is also compelling to me.

 

Very, very strongly agree with you on the subject of Mosley's apparent exoneration at the hands of the Boxing public. Here's a guy who not only was caught out, but publicly admitted to knowingly cheating. Yet a large section of us wave it away. Please. Vargas doesnt get the same treatment.

 

Maybe he loaded them vs Mosley because he had a bad camp and knew he was far from 100% ready. But don't get me wrong, while I'm more inclined do think he didn't load them vs Cotto, it's in a 49-51 % way. I acknowledge that there's a strong probability that he did it. But I just can't believe he did it all over his career. I'm more willing to side with Capetillo version of the story than agreeing witht that.

 

Possible (he definitely looked weakened to me), but likely? I dont see it that way. Its a pretty extreme first-up measure, as cheating goes, and it doesnt explain why the complexion of his return fight with Cotto was quite similar, yet he did SO much less damage.

 

The fact only he landed about 55% as many power punches will have contributed.

 

Not a witch hunt. Just basic reporting. You know, something other than a recap or a summary of upcoming fights. It's true - writers could do something other than pr for promoters and fighters. Stuff readers are interested in. At some point, the press, if they're not examining things, has to be considered part of the problem.

 

Same here regarding the Cotto fight, and even those trying to present an argument, or even coming off as Plasterito apologists, I bet when it came to the crunch, and they were forced to bet everything on loaded or not loaded for Cotto 1, they would choose loaded.

In theory what you say is true, but who knows, people are fucking stupid, and the fact is loading gloves these days is so rare, I can see them sneaking some hard little plaster plates in there unnoticed.

Afterall, if not for Richardson, there's nothing at all to say he wouldn't have gotten away with it against Shane.

Pretty hard to ignore the Lujan fight too.

Personally I'd bet money if was for more fights than just Cotto and Mosley.

 

I would bet that's largely down to not breaking Cotto down with wraps, then being able to land MANY more punches in Cotto's beaten down, weakened state.

But let's say it really is 55%.

55% of the punches and 5% of the damage.

 

I can see it, down the line, a somewhat fat, bespectacled Margarito, wearing a shirt and tie, posing reflectively for the cameras, and meandering on about how his life post-boxing was ruined by conspiratorial gringo's and Falangist Puerto Ricans who wouldn't leave him in peace to make an honest dime in TV, with all these revisionist tools piling in with hard talk about "evidence, proof, court-of-law".

HE FUCKING CHEATED.

 

Exactly. Watch the first fight, as early as the 3rd and 4th, his stonemason trainer was urging him to up his punch output.

In what three rounds with Margarito throw and land his highest volume of punches in the FIRST fight??

 

Not directly. But in a implicit sense possibly. If the boxing press exists to promote and appease the tv networks and promoters, because without them they can't exist (e.g. Ring Magazine), then they are undeniably complicit because by definition then, their reporting consists entirely of PR for the sport, as opposed to real news.

I guess you can't blame them for doing what they do, if their existence depends on it. But it's necessary then to see them for what they are.

For example, what percent of boxing news websites are finances by promoters and cable networks? I don't know the answer. But even if it's 10%, it calls to question how objective the places are going to be and how willing they are to seek out controversial news.

 

Again I say, there's still nothing beyond mass speculation that he cheated in the Cotto fight. Most in the press believe that to be true. But you have Keith Kizer insisting that it wasn't the case. You have Arum defending Margarito (to the point of straining his own relationship w/ Cotto).

Cintron has been interviewed at length, including prior to his fight w/ Alvarez. He had nothing of substance to offer to the conversation, other than saying he and Cotto were never cut/hurt in fights like they were against Margarito, which isn't even entirely true.

Martinez has never once said he suspected Margarito of cheating in their fight way back when, just that he would've loved the chance to avenge the loss. He's been asked thousands of times by hundreds of reporters and at times almost refuses to answer the question.

Clottey and Williams naturally had nothing to say on the subject, yet both fought Margarito within the time frame of his hands being wrapped (if we're dating it all the way back to Lujan). So either they both boast chins that can withstand any weapon (other than Martinez' fists, in PWill's case), or he wasn't loading his wraps at that time.

So that's his five most significant fights pre-Mosley. But according to you, we still need to speak to Lujan, Manuel Gomez and Golden Johnson before we reach closure.

The same question I've asked others, I ask you as well - at what point do you suspect that Margarito was loading his wraps? Nobody seems to have a definitive answer for it, other than believing he did it for the Cotto fight.

 

Do you think he loaded his wraps for the Cotto fight Jake?

MTF

 

I recognize it's pure speculation as to whether or not Margarito's wraps were loaded in the first Cotto fight. In my opinion, that is in no way a reason not to have a point of view on the topic.

And I'm not ashamed that as a boxing fan I don't have a definitive position on when Margarito began loading his gloves. Why do I need one?

I guess at the end of the day, we all want answers. And in our search for them, we form opinions based on what we observe. Margarito is not, and should not, be immune to that here, in the press, or anywhere else that's not a court-room.

As far as Pacquiao, and the suit against PBF for defamation, that has no relation whatsoever to this, in which there's established evidence of Margarito's wrong-doing, and in which it's a stretch to think that he didn't do it before.

 

How is he immune, though? I'd love to know what sites are in your rotation to support the belief that the issue has been ignored.

That's the part to which I take serious offense. If the sites you read aren't providing the info you want - look elsewhere, because it's out there.

Also know, there's a big difference between an issue being ignored, and not getting the answers you want to hear.

 

If Pacquiao got busted for Roids in his next fight, how many of you would say "Yeah this is probably the only time he took roids".

The very notion would be preposterous.

 

No one is saying this is probably the first time Margarito loaded his wraps.

 

Then what are they saying exactly?

What's this witch hunt Jake speaks of?

People are speculating that Plasterito has loaded his wraps before. Such speculation is not only to be expected, but is really quite justified given fights like Cotto 1 and Lujan, and really just boils down to common sense.

 

I don't dismiss the possibility of it, but have never formed a definitive opinion on the subject one way or another. Elements of both sides of the argument have left me undecided.

 

See, there's my problem. Those two fights are more than three years apart, with fights against Clottey and PWill having taken place in between. Did he just forget to load his wraps on those nights, or are we talking selective loading?

Again, I don't dismiss the notion that the Mosley fight wasn't the first time he tried it. But you're suggesting your opinion as common sense and fact, when at least the latter has yet to be proven to be the case (esp. going as far back as '05)

 

Not fact, but after seeing Plasterito manage to land a decent amount of punches in the first half of this fight and not even come vaguely close to the bloodied, battered mess that Cotto became in the 1st fight, running for his life with a face full of bleeding welts, I'm basically 99% confident that he loaded in the first fight.

As for other fights, who knows, maybe he only did it when there was an opportune moment to get away with it, or the opponent was particularly dangerous.

Lujan's ear being punched off is pretty hard to ignore too.

Even taking away those facts, the facts that are horrendous facial damage, I think it would be illogical to assume that he HADN'T loaded his gloves before.

There's a first time for everything, but the idea of that first time being 14 years into his career is pretty hard to believe, especially given the mammoth difference to the way Cotto responded to being hit in both fights.

 

I can only speak for myself... but only thing that has annoyed me is the "AHA, SEE, I KNEW IT!!!11" reaction to the Cotto/Margarito rematch. As if there aren't a pile of other factors worth looking at.

I feel like Jake and I are pretty much on the same page. Speculation is totally fine, just no need for tunnel vision.

 

I think ever since the second Danny Perez fight, he's been loading.

Clottey's explainable since all he did was cover-up and look for a way out. He fights in a shell anyways.

P-will I think was saved by the fact he's so fucking tall, and even then, he was falling down by the time the fight was over.

Jake,

Can you tell me a specific site that has a article in which this subject is researched and analyzed? I believe you - I just haven't seen one.

 

Tunnel vision? Let's just work off the two Cotto fights and see what those fights throw up.

 

Just working off the two Cotto fights would be an example of tunnel vision, refusing to acknowledge what has happened in the three+ years separating them.

 

tunnel vision would be allowing legal technicalities to cloud one's judgement when all that's required is common sense to see that Margarito is a chronic cheat.

if the man's on trial in a court of law, and we were members of the jury, i could see the wisdom of feeling confined by the letter of the law.

but in this case, giving Margarito the benefit of the doubt just doesn't make sense.