Your beef is with X, not me. I didn't rate Ward in the top-5 based on the Kessler fight. Now, with his entire body or work to date to look at, I think he's one of the best fighters in the world. It is what it is.
Ward is a decent fighter. I understand your need to get the pfp stick out. Where is Khan in your pfp rankings?
I was most surprised at how early Ward got his jab going. Typically you tell a guy to double up on the jab, but tonight it worked to Froch's detriment. He'd throw a single good jab but when he doubled it it the jab came back so slow (or it was a backhand) that if Ward slipped the first jab, he'd instinctly throw his own jab then Froch (who looked to step in with the second jab) ran straight into ward's jab. Andre couldn't miss him. The times froch threw single hard jabs...he'd stop ward in his tracks with it. froch's corner should have told him to throw the one hard jab then perhaps take a half step back to hope to lure Ward in. I was also surprised that Froch allowed Ward to push him back as much as he did. Irish, to answer your question about why Ward tired...before the fight I'd said that I thought Froch would be stronger on the inside than Ward thought. I believe that to be true now. Despite ward winning the majority on the exchanges in close I believe that's what tired him out. Not pressure or punches Froch put on him. Froch looked much bigger than ward to me. I think the leaning on froch is what did it. Froch also did a great job at explaining why he couldn't get off when in close...it's pretty much what Ward and his team had said about brit fighters prior to the fight. Said they aren't comfortable fighting on the inside. Ward clearly won this fight in every dimesion...inside and outside. he outboxed and outslugged Froch. No shame...Froch didn't fight like a bitch.
Froch is longer, taller, Ward is as wide as he is and thicker through the midsection. I wouldn't say the strength differences were huge, in fact I pegged it pretty even myself. As for the Ward team and their geographically based notions of who can and can't fight inside....that's just off-base, a stereotype.
Irish is really reaching for straws in this thread. I still cant get over the Eubank statement. LMFAO @ the Eubank of 97 being as good as today's Ward.
I don't know, off the top of my head, in no particular order Pacquiao Mayweather Donaire Marquex Ward Martinez Wlad Vitali Bradley Hopkins Peterson would have to be above Khan. There's also guys like Froch, Pong (been around forever) - Khan is def/outside of my top 10. But, as I said, I don't maintain a p4p list. I just watch boxing and make decisions on who I think is better when the topics come up.
Of/Against the 6 original entrants, both men have 3 wins. Of the replacement contenders, Ward fought Green {} and Froch fought Johnson.{:bears:} Johnson, you will remember, stopped Green. I mean, they gave Ward points for not fighting, IIRC. Ward is a "deserving winner" etc....but lets face it, he had the easier time of it throughout. Maybe if he fights Johnson and Dirrell isntead of Bika and Green.....he has a little less in the tank come tonight. Stranger things have happened over 2 years in boxing.
Eubank in 1997 was dangerous and a lethal infighter with an iron jaw. Peak Eubank would have fucked Ward up, and you needn't take that from me, I am sure there are more respected forumites who would agree. The night Eubank beat Benn, if he approached Ward with that menality, he stops him, probably ruins him. I never understood the Eubank dislike, most of it probably stems from not liking Calzaghe and a need to undermine Joe. That's well and good, but it shouldn't come back on Eubank. After Eubank lost to Joe Calzaghe, he moved up to 190 and gave Carl Thompson hell in two epic wars. He had plenty left when Joe outscored him.
Ward has a higher ring IQ than Eubank EVER had. I think that would be a factor. Eubank would have been much better if his boxing IQ matched his talent. I'd give Eubank a puncher's chance with Ward, but thats about it.
The part in bold is a pile of horseshit, but I do probably favour Eubank in his prime over Ward. Still, I think it would have been an interesting fight.
I am not blaming Ward for the collapse of the original format. Nobody is. Consider this though: Kessler effectively got punched out of the tournament by Froch, whom he "beat" in Copenhagen. Suppose Kessler doesn't incur the damage that he does, and stays in the tournament, and Ward is forced to travel to Denmark to face a keyed up Kessler?? See my point. Things fell nicely for Ward. Not saying he played a part in it, just saying they fell nicely for him. Supposing he fights Johnson and Dirrell and not Bika/Green. Supposing he does something the other fighters all did and TRAVELS.
Ward's style is NOTHING like Benn's. To start, Ward has defense, skills, and brains. Three things Nigel Benn couldnt spell.
Put it this way...... Jones is the ONLY supermiddle in history that I'd take over Ward without hesitation. Thats pretty high raise for Ward, considering the 168 Roy was arguably the best fighter to ever put on gloves.
Ward/Kessler wasn't nearly close enough for me to believe the fight would have been any different no matter where they fought. I do agree, though - Ward had a much nicer schedule than Froch. No doubt about that.
Eubank in 1997 would have gone 12 rounds with Ward and probably won more of them than Froch did. The early ineffective flailing of Froch would have been replaced by a Eubank uppercut that floored harder men than Ward or Kessler and damn near killed Watson. Again, I point to Eubanks high-level campaigning at 30lbs higher than his original weight as proof of the fact that he still had something left. Nobody stops Eubanks. Nobody. Especially a guy with no right hand.
I'm going back listening to instructions between rounds and I have to give McCracken credit....he told Froch to stop throwing the slow jab because Ward was countering it. He also told Froch to be busier and to not throw punches when Ward is out of range. Solid advice...Froch couldn't execute.
Believe me sincerely- if their fight had taken place in Copenhagen, Ward loses by DQ. Is it not telling that Froch put more hurt on Kessler in a fight Kessler "won" than Ward did with his head in a fight Kessler lost? :dunno: Ward avoided every major stumbling block out there and when push came to shove he had traveled less, fought the softer guys in the run-up to the final, he even was the last of them to fight Abraham Not saying he didn't "deserve" it tonight, but the road-map was pretty sweet for him.
Watson was on the verge of stopping him in the rematch, until he ran into that uppercut. Nobody under 175 stops Eubank. At 175, I think Spinks, Foster, and Moore would have knocked the living shit outta him. Qawi would have grinded Eubank down, and beaten him to the point where the ref would stop it.
No one would have said that when he drew the clear tournament favourite, Kessler, and Froch drew Dirrell right off the bat. Abraham was an easy nights work for every good fighter in the tournament.
Rematch, England, what happens? Does Froch have the Joe Louis stuff to make adjustments and improve? Personally, if he fought Kessler and Ward in his next two fights, I think he would notch two wins, if they were held in Germany or England. I am saying it now...Ward will do a Roy Jones and NEVER leave America in his "prime".
