Any point to isolation weight routines?

I agree: you can be a male and want to take good care of yourself. Haven't seen you in ages, but I'm sure you've taken a different track than the Jersey Boys.

Nobody's disagreeing about looking good or looking like a beach ball, but people have different priorities.

You used to want to be a fighter. I'm surprised that you don't want that anymore.

 

'Good' is in the eye of the beholder. The same people disproportionate biceps and pecs look 'good' to usually think orange skin, hair highlights and tribal tattoos look 'good', too. Guess it's a matter of taste.

 

Which is exactly why big fat pudgy guys who can lift 800lb logs think thats what going to the gym is all about.
It ain't, never has been, never will be.

Like I said, those are usually Endomorph guys, 5'5"-5'10", short, stocky guys with shit genetics who'll never 'look good' or 'attract chicks'.

 

I'm also guessing none of you guys are nearing 40. There's an eventual slide in strength, and getting as strong as you can will help blunt that to an extent.

 

No no Buddy - it's all in the mind!!
Only your mind will set limits on what your body can achieve!

::

 

Enjoy your training and shut up.

 

Are you lacking in knowledge of the origins of weightlifting? Originally that is exactly what it was for, but then people saw other applications besides being circus strongmen.

As for your last comment, there might be some truth in that, but some people just enjoy pushing themselves beyond the norm when it comes to strength, and they don't base their chances on women with how many striations they have.

In fact, your last sentence is a low-brow generalization. It's like me saying what you describe (wimp weights, body tweezing, constant self-analysis of body image) sounds more like a rationale for weak, insecure men who lack the mental strength to push themselves towards becoming truly strong, and so they compensate by gaining an extra ripple here or there because they lack the ability to create healthy long-lasting relationships.

 

:: :bears:

 

I thought you'd like it.::

 

Just because it was important to make sly and Cleto Reyes/DickMagnet happy, I added a bunch of sets today and did the sets as close to non-stop as I could. It was a bicep workout.

E-Z Bar Curls
1*10 (35lbs)
1*10 (55lbs)
1*10 (75lbs)
1*10 (95lbs)
1*9 (115lbs)
1*10 (85lbs)
1*10 (75lbs)
1*10 (65lbs)

By this point, my arms were pretty pumped, so I did another exercise to finish them off.

Alternate Dumbbell Curls
1*10 (20lbers)
1*10 (30lbers)
1*10 (40lbers)
1*7 (50lbers) At this point I had sweated through my shirt.
1*10 (30lbers)
1*20 (20lbers)
1*15 (15lbers)

Then I barely had time to change back into my office clothes and get back as it's 15 minutes to the gym and 15 minutes back at lunchtime. I didn't have time to tweeze, but the day is still young.

 

Buddy - do you do any wide or close-grip pullups or chinups in your routines?
The only people in my gym I see doing these are smaller, lighter guys...

:dunno:

 

Anybody can build up to them. It just takes some planning.

Actually I've done chinups rather extensively for the past few years because I like to climb rope using just my arms. I got up to doing 25 consecutive chinups. I was doing 120chins every two days. I know that sounds like a lot, but it's not really.

What I did was bodyweight circuits throughout the day. Doing 1 rep of each exercise:
1. 1 handstand pushup against a wall.
2. 1 chinup
3. 1 v-crunch with a 50lb weight plate
4. 1 horizontal pullup with feet on bench
5. 1 pushup
6. 1 hyperextension
7. 1 cross-leg crunch (hits outer abs and obliques better)
8. 1 one-leg calf raise with a 50lb weight plate
9. 1 neck harness raise with a 50lb plate

The next set I would do 2 reps of each, the next set 3 reps each, and so on throughout the day until I did 15 sets. I started when I woke up, did some at lunch, and the rest were doen after work. Add all that up and it is 120 reps. That will put great overall bodystrength on you.

Right now I'm resting my rotator cuffs for a month as the left one has been bugging me and I don't want it to become chronic. I think I hurt it when my son swept my legs as we were jumping on the big trampoline in our backyard. I hit the trampoline near the outer edge and got a metal spring in my shoulder because I had to avoid falling on him and landed awkwardly. ::

I actually started using one of those weighted dip/assisted chinup machines at my gym so that I could work towards a one-armed chinup. Overtime I will reduce the weight and hopefully get a one-arm chinup out of the deal. I ALWAYS wanted to do one of those.

 

Good post.

Im joining a new gym in this week and I need to incorporate some bodyweight routines into my programme.
Lat-machines don't help one little bit when attempting pullups. I went on holiday to Rio de Janeiro a few months ago and everyone's doing them on these little steel-multi-purpose frames by the beach.
I think I managed 2. Assisted. issed:

Chins I can do better. 7. ::

I guess with that bodyweight circuit you listed, you've got a large garage or space at hime with the weights and gear, etc?
My current 'gym' (its one of those 'fitness centres' rather than a gym) is way too small.

Rotator-cuff's a massive fear for me...and appraoching 40, I know things like that are common - I thought Id done mine 2 months ago but it turned out just to be a strain on the rear deltoid.

 

If you can do chins, build up the number of chins you can do. Start off with just doing 3 chins consecutively, but do about 5-10 sets throughout the day, anytime you go by a chinup bar or a tree branch. Do that everyday for a week, and then the next week, do FOUR chins 5-10 times a day everyday. It's a training trick called grease the groove. Week by week, you increase your reps, and after a few months you'll notice a dramatic change in number of repetitions that you can do.


If you don't have access to a chinup bar, you can buy one that mounts in your door frame for a pretty cheap price. Myself I have a gym in my basement as well as access to two commercial gyms.

Chins REALLY widen your lats. I can now do chins with a 50lb plate. There are a number of varieties you can do. Close grip, wide grip, grip with palms facing you (supinated), palms facing away (pronated), and you can get fancy and use different kinds of gripping handles if you just use a rope with hooks to wrap around the bar.

 

I thought:
Chins = biceps
Pullups = lats

:dunno:

 

There's definitely more bicep involvement in the supinated grip, but both work the back. The gripping muscles (biceps, forearms, and hand muscles) usually give out first, so if you can do cross-bench pullovers, that would really help to try and pre-exhaust your lats before you use the gripping muscles. If you want to develop a stubborn muscle group, you have to pre-exhaust it.

 

Very good advice

 

Not sure if you're being sarcastic.....but they're basically the same movement except pull ups take the biceps out of it way more (as a demo flex your biceps with your hand pro or supinated and you'll see how overhand deactivates the bis). Hence them being harder to do, sine you're missing the bi's contribution. Otherwise, its as you were......since you can do more reps/weight with chins they're the superior lat exercise, although less specialist:Thumbs:

'training economy'

 

No no - sorry...no sarcasm.
I always look at Pullups being the palms facing out, wide-grip type that you see guys do that replace the movement of the lat-machine pulldown bar.
Chins I do as palms-facing in, close grip...

But yeah, I know what you mean now...

 

...looking after wife and child in big house, etc
opcorn:

 

Not quite, but I definitely know who I want writing my obituary now. ::

Oh, and I only went in the icecovered lake to save our idiot family dog who went through. That was one cold walk back up the road to the house.::::

 

We have a woodstove in the in-law suite, so I keep my mother-in-law from freezing during the winter. It's just cheaper to buy the wood and cut it myself. It needs to be done in advance. If you buy it when you need it, it's upwards of $150 for a cut and split cord. If you do it yourself, you save $100 a cord and you get a workout. ::

 

And I only made 5 because I realized it might be a waste of time.

 

I'd love to do this kind of thing for strength...much better than hitting a tyre with a hammer.

Thing is, I dont have an axe and I dont need any wood... :dunno:

 

Well this thread is already quite long so I am not sure there is a lot to add other than my personal philosophy on the initial question.

YES, there is a point to isolation weight routines. Especially if you feel that certain muscles are lacking with respect to others. People can get like this through repetitive activities that do not provide a good balance in working multiple muscle groups (e.g. digging ditches all day).

But for me the key has always been to rotate into exercises that bring it all together and develop coordination and synergy between the muscles, body-wide. Swimming is a great example. Boxing or kickboxing. I have found that you can strengthen individual muscles quite well through isolation (always use the MAXIMUM range of motion, don't be one of the guys doing concentrated curls and moving 2 inches), but then you need to start "teaching" them to work together so that you end up with a core body strength that will serve you well in almost any activity.

If I go in and work biceps, tris, lats, pecs, delts, abs, quads, calf muscles, etc., etc., in a more individual and isolated fashion (also doing muscle groups to some extent, it's inevitable) I will look better and I will indeed strengthen these components. Then I will remain on essentially a weightlifting diet with a little more in the carbs department and swim laps like a motherfucker. Switch up crawl, breast stroke, scissors, backstroke, butterfly (if you can do it).

What I noticed is that when things start coming together, I am stronger then I was before, but it is almost like it takes time to go from simply a bunch of muscles strong on their own to a synergy which makes the whole stronger than it was before. After doing cycles of weight training where I increase both reps and weight over time, I come into the pool clumsy and run out of breath quickly. But with time I find I am a more powerful swimmer than I was before, and moreso than if I just swam laps and skipped the weights altogether.

Same goes for boxing. Once I start hitting the heavy bag, speed bag, shadow boxing, working on moving, ducking, countering, etc., I become a noticeably stronger fighter and can usually retain most of the speed/agility I had before doing weight training. There is nothing quite like punching correctly to really bring all those muscles together in a rather beautiful motion.

I think if you only did isolated weight training, you would end up looking good, but your practical effectiveness in everything from sports to just everyday activities would be poor. Everyone knows guys like this, and no I am not talking about gays. Just the guys always in the weightroom doing every bizarre exercise you have ever seen, swinging around with a plate strapped to their head trying to strengthen something-or-another. But they couldn't play volleyball for 15 seconds without pulling something and getting winded.

I notice that after intense weight training and then working on muscle synergy, I am actually better at everything, including basketball, tennis, sports you wouldn't think to relate to weight training.

That's my 2 cents.

 

Interesting post. Do you mainly concentrate on isolation movements in your training or just to supplement the core lifts?

 

Isolation exercises are good if you want to pre-exhaust a muscle group. For example, my shoulders are tough to develop (lateral and posterior deltoid heads). Lateral raises and bent over laterals work the heads before I do chins or upright rows (which otherwise work my traps first and foremost or so I've found).

 

For me...all I need to do are the following:

Isolation Incline Bench (Machine)
Isolation Decline
Isolation Flat Press
Peck Deck
Crunches
Ab machine (not to be confused with crunches...the one where you push with your arms and hold while you abs move the weight)
Shrugs


I tend to walk up the stairs at work, two at a time and so don't need to spend time in the gym on my legs

That's my routine in its entirety throughout the week and it gets me ripped.