The Top-10 WORST Heavyweight Champs?

The Rahman thread got me thinking...who are the ten WORST Heavies to claim THE main world HW championship (so no one gets to name John Ruiz and other belt-holders, to be clear).

Use whichever criteria you see fit. Im gonna give this a little thought.

 

Its a hard call Ramonza, the truth of the matter is that if you ignore Alphabets and Ruiz, then you really do slim it down a lot, so much so you get to the stage that you are talking about the 10 least good of the best, if you know what I mean. Effectively, Wlad escapes attention because he was never the "main" champion. Instead, you wind up with Vitali, who perversely would end up on your list despite being able to beat up his brother, anybody else on the list, and half the guys not on the list.

I mean, truthfully, Leon Spinks and the Tyson that beat Bruno, could very well be on the list.

 

You got me all backwards on this one, Irish. I consider Wlad THE champ, but Vitali was never that.

Either way, you wont see either brother present when I post a list.

 

Hart
Willard
Carnera
Johansson
Spinks
Briggs
Rahman
Douglas
Burns
Ellis

Not sure the order theyd be put into, but thats them, for mine. Thats Leon where it says Spinks, but little brother went mighty close to inclusion himself.

I tried to base my list more on what they achieved, rather than who-beats-who.

 

Ruiz is Typically Used as a Way of Denigrating Roy Jones Jr...Not Saying YOU'RE Doing Such a Thing, but that's Generally how Ruiz's Name is Bandied About, in this Context...Nevermind the FACT that Guys like Primo Carnera, Ingemar Johaanson, Bruce Seldon, Joe Hipp, Leon Spinks & a SHITLOAD of Others (MORE than 10) were WORSE....



REED:Lok:

 

Wow. Eight of my ten failed to mount a single successful defense of their crown --- and of the other two, Ellis made just one defense, which was clearly a gift against an old Patterson.

Four of the ten beat men over 35 to win their title. In Briggs' case, he fought by far the eldest incumbent and still needed a gift.

Just three of the ten ever put themselves in position to challenge a second time, and of course were all knocked out.

The above stats are purely off the top of my head, too...these were some stinkers, folkes!

 

You are probably right about that.

You are definitely right that isnt what I had in mind, though. I want to get away from the Seldon's, the Bruno's, and, yes, the Ruiz's in this thread.

As you were, REED. Any linear candidates, BTW?

 

The very worst Heavyweight Champion ever is Leon Spinx. Without a doubt.

 

Looking again at my list, Id probably say youre right. At 7-0-1 and having achieved next-to-nothing after besting Ali, I think he probably is number-1.

Pretty much everyone I named both accomplished more and would have likely beaten Spinks head-to-head.

 

Spinks is on my list, I didn't know Hart was the de-facto man either, I actually only took an interest in Jeffries and Burns and ignored what went on in between. Hart can go onto the list then too. Jeffries should not be on anyones list, he would crack heads in any era. You could give Burns all the training in the world and it wouldn't matter a shit. Jeffries with some modern training a bit of proper, non-alcohol related conditioning would be a terrible opponent to have to face. Ellis isn't a guy I rate either. A split decision over a Quarry that had fractured vertebrae? And not a whole lot else beside? Hard to have much sympathy for him. Mike Spinks as a lineal champ might come under the microscope too. Braddock too.

 

Braddock and Michael Spinks werent far off making my list.

Even for those who dont rate Jeffries head-to-head, he achieved way too much to be considered.

Hell, Jeffries is arguably THE most accomplished boxer in so few fights ever...right there with the likes of Leonard, Corbett, Fenech, and a handful of others.

 

Jeffries did have a good resume, it makes me laugh when people said he was beaten in what was a "ridiculously easy fight" for Johnson, the guy came back after 6 years out, dropped 50lbs and went 15 rounds with Johnson, even hurting Johnson to the body on occasion. There's a lot of nonsense written about that fight, that Johnson was carrying Jeffries- he couldn't get Jeffries out of it and basically had to wait for him to tire, much as Willard did with Johnson. If Ray Leonard gets kudos for spending so long out of the ring before beating Hagler, then Jeffries should get similar credit.Perversely, Johnson needed the Jeffries fight to boost his own resume, which was light. Johnson had a good rep BEFORE winning the title, his rep afterwards was putrid.

Another thing that todays fighters might take from guys like Jeffries, Tom Sharkey, Fitz, Johnson etc is how ripped and built they were. These were 3-square-meal guys, and they had physiques that would not look out of place today, and not a steroid in sight. The heavyweight division being what it is, those men could be given proper training and would be competitive, given that the division has always rewarded power and guts over raw talent, more than any other division.

 

It's a shame so much energy is expended on the Johnson fight, since Jeffries' real career, as said, is arguably the most fantastically condensed time inside the ropes ever seen.

 

That's how the cookie crumbles in boxing, unfortunately, one bad night is worth three years of solid work.

 

bruce seldon

 

Way to read through the thread ::

Ramonza if you're going to do a thread like this, at least provide a cheat sheet.

Working in reverse:

Wladimir Klitschko (won vacant)
Lennox Lewis (Regained)
Hasim Rahman
Lennox Lewis
Shannon Briggs
George Foreman (regained)
Michael Moorer
Evander Holyfield (regained)
Riddick Bowe
Evander Holyfield
Buster Douglas
Mike Tyson
Michael Spinks
Larry Holmes
Muhammad Ali (regained x2)
Leon Spinks
Muhammad Ali (regained)
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Muhammad Ali
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson (regained)
Ingomar Johannsen
Floyd Patterson (won vacant)
Rocky Marciano
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Joe Louis
Jim Braddock
Max Baer
Primo Carnera
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmelling (won vacant)
Gene Tunney
Jack Dempsey
Jess Willard
Jack Johnson
Tommy Burns
Marvin Hart (won vacant)
James Jeffries
Bob Fitzsimmons
James J Corbett
John L Sullivan

 

Ellis was never lineal champ. I'd replace him w/ Braddock, who was actually one of the first I thought of when I saw the thread title.

 

Good list, although I don't rate Ellis as a former heavyweight champion.

You have to start with Hart and Burns, no doubt.
Willard couldn't fight much. Neither could Carnera or Braddock.

Johansson was pretty useless as far as heavyweight champions go.

Then you get into your Spinks, Douglas, Briggs, Rahman.

So

Hart
Burns
Willard
Carnera
Braddock
Johansson
Spinks
Douglas
Briggs
Rahman

I pretty much traded Ellis for Braddock.

 

::

I was typing as you wrote this

 

Good answer, dawg

 

Great minds... and all that.

 

Wasn't Vitali anointed by most after beating Sanders? I don't really remember.

 

I was trying to find room for Tunney

 

Depends on who you mean by "most."

The Ring sanctioned it in efforts to boost declining sales, but most other people considered the title vacant from Lewis to Wlad, especially since at the time of Vitali-Sanders, wedged in between was Chris Byrd.

 

Thanks. Byrd standing in the way makes sense, although I wonder how it would have worked if Oquendo got the decision.

 

Neither do Sanders or Wladimir.

 

I don't think it is about Jones at all. It is because of style: people hated the fact that a guy could be successful with such style. Nobody wanted to see him win, thus he didn't get his deserved props when he did win.


If we approached this thread on who beats who, then Bob Fitsimmons could be the worst ever right after Marvin Hart

 

Sorry, I missed this earlier.

If Jeffries beat Johnson, perhaps you'd be on to something.

 

Great topic. Tough because you hate to put some of these guys on an all-time worst list... but it's elite company anyway, so someone has to qualify. The way i rate them, from best to worst:


1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jim Braddock
3. Jack Sharkey
4. Jess Willard
5. Buster Douglas
6. Hasim Rahman
7. Ingomar Johannsen
8. Shannon Briggs
9. Leon Spinks
10. Primo Carnera

Jess Willard seems too high on this list. Tough to rank tho. If Ruiz qualified he'd be on this list right at the bottom along with Seldon. Ruiz wouldn't have won a single fight if not for being allowed to cheat his way through matches. Disgraceful boxer.

 

No Burns? Hart?