Better hw resume, Lewis or Holyfield?

yes. but the idea that someone in Lewis's position should've, let alone would've, accepted 10%, is ridiculous. Bowe's offer of 10% was a bluff - a different way of saying, "I don't want to fight you."

 

then lewis couldve (or shouldve) called his bluff, and he would not have been on the outside looking in for the rest of the decade

 

Anyway, as it turns out, it was Bowe who suffered from not making the fight, not Lewis. Bowe's the one who fucked up by not giving himself a chance at a big win other than Holyfield. Lewis is an all time great; Bowe is a foot-note.

 

See my reply above. Lewis chose the correct course of action, as evidenced by his all-time great status. Bowe's legacy, on the other hand, is the one that could've stood to gain from the fight.

Outside looking in? ::

Lewis, as it turns out, didn't need Bowe. Bowe, as it turns out, needed "something," and it could've been a win over Lewis if he hadn't pussed out.

 

you could be right. if it were lewis going to war 3 times with a prime holyfield then he would have been the one with the shorter career and brain damage.

 

A lot of that brain damage came from laying on the ropes and getting battered by Andrew Golota for 2 fights. Holyfield was hardly the one solely responsible.

It's too bad what happened to Bowe though. He was the 12th of 13 kids, came from poverty, and became the champion of the world. Now he's in poor shape. Holyfield actually looks and sounds better.

 

That's a whole other story - the one that would've occurred had it been Lewis and not Bowe fighting Holyfield.

 

Nah it isn't. he had a cunt for a manager and ducked Lennox Lewis in what would have been the biggest Heavyweight fight since Ali-Frazier 1.

I can't forgive him for that.

 

In hindsight the fight seems that big, but at the time the match up wasn't as big as that.

Still, I wish it would've been made. But you still have to feel for Bowe.

 

Rock Newman is a separate story. I'm just talking about Bowe rising from a tough background, reaching the pinnacle, and then falling prey to his own demons.

Newman is a different story. He was a scumbag.

 

aRE YOU KIDDING? It was HUGE at the time. HUGE.

Bowe was undefeated champion, having been the first man to defeat Holyfield in an impressive performance, proving that he was the true real deal.

Lennox was undefeated and the consensus #1 challenger after destroying the most feared man at the time, Razor Ruddock.

It was also a rematch of teh controversial 1988 olympic superheavyweight final.

T'was a HUGE match at the time. I remember licking my lips in anticipation of it.

Huge!

 

It was big, but not Ali/Frazier big.

 

Nothing is Ali-Frazier big..but as I said, it would have been the biggest heavyweight fight SINCE Ali-Frazier. Which is true since Holyfield-Tyson 1991 didn't come off.

 

:atu: most feared eh?

and

:limp:

 

it wasnt as big as holyfield bowe 2, shit bird.

 

You are a silly person.

 

::

 

Ruddock was not a title challenger, other than that carry on

 

none of that changes that 10% is a slap in the face and grotesquely unrealistic given Lewis's recent success at that time and the feud between he and Riddick going back to the Olympics. The lion's share of guys in Lewis's situation would have said "fuck off" to that as well

 

Holmes/Cooney was about 900 times bigger than Bowe/Lewis ever would have been. Get real.

It was a pretty big fight, and boxing people were definitely geared up for it, but it did not have this massive swell of casual interest the way Holmes/Cooney or even Tyson/Spinks did

 

He and Lewis fought for the mandatory WBC title shot, so you're right, he was a top contender but not a title challenger. I had forgotten Tyson didn't have the titles when they fought the first and second times. Holy-Bowe and Lewis-Ruddock was supposed to be a 4-man tournament that resulted in one champion. Then after Riddick beat Holyfield, he didn't want to fight Bowe, and he also tried to sue Holyfield's promotional team because he didn't want to rematch Holyfield right away even though there was a rematch clause. This is going back just over 15 years ago, so forgive me if the details are a bit shady.

When Holyfield was champ, Bowe wanted to be a part of that 4-man tournament. When Bowe became champ, he wanted to fight Dokes and Ferguson. He no longer wanted to fight the best until he lost his titles, and THEN he started talking about fighting for the WBO and giving them legitimacy. Like I said before, it's sad what became of Bowe, but he was one of the prime architects of his own downfall.

 

absolutely, you are correct. He and Newman though they were bigger than the world and it bit them in the ass

 

While this is true, there was already one champion.

 

You're right. Holyfield was that champ, but the public wanted to see a new undisputed champ crowned as a result of the tournament. So Holyfield underwent scrutiny and derision as a result of Douglas' sloth and the droppage against Cooper--and so he took on a bigger, stronger fighter, showing more heart in one fight than most great fighters show in a career. People thought Bowe might have been the heir apparent, but he was much too interested in avoiding challenges by dropping a belt and taking on the dead dogs of the world.

In this sport, successful and unsuccessful challenges show a champ's mettle one way or the other. Holy took the high road, which was the road of greatest resistance. Bowe, by contrast, went soft the moment he decisioned Evander.

It's interesting: Holy couldn't handle defeat, so he kept going, regained the title, and did his best to carve out a legacy with meaningful fights and victories (and defeats, but the man went after it all).

By contrast, Bowe couldn't handle success even though he was the more talented, better fighter of the two at the time. So Holyfield rose and Bowe fell, both came from poor backgrounds, but one never lost the hunger whereas the other one got a kitchen built into his bedroom.

 

Holy had to keep fighting to pay for his brood.

 

Man you are a motherfuckingly annoying poster...with all due respect. ::

Ok...it's like this. I'm speaking from the perspective of boxing historical significance not soap opera drama.

Holmes Cooney was big in terms of the amount of interest it generated...but it was big more because of the black white angle and shit. Holmes was an unpopular but dominant champion and this large undefeated left hooker was the great white hope. It was never thought to be historically significant from a pure boxing sense.

Tyson-Spinks...I hear you...but truthfully and let's be honest with ourselves..that was a hype job more than anything else...Tyson was always expected to evicerate Spinks in short order.

But nevertheless I concede that both fights generate more viewership than probably Lewis-Bowe would have done.

Lewis-Bowe, however, in terms of pure unadulterrated boxing fan significance (historically and otherwise) was clearly a bigger fight than Holmes Cooney...in that it was two undefeated evenly matched guys, undisputed #1 and #2 in the division, with stellar amateur backgrounds, first signs of the new generation of enormous but athletic heavyweights and with a genuine grudge component to boot.

Overall more significant than Holmes Cooney and Tyson Spinks.

Let's look at it this way:

De La Hoya - Mayweather vs Chavez-Whitaker or Chavez-Taylor 1

I'm sure De la Hoya Mayweather generated more public interest based on Oscar's fame and Mayweather's infamy...but the Chavez fights were more significant from a pure boxing sense.

 

so you are changing the definition of "Big" then?::

As far as I could tell, it's always been about the money and the size of the crowd

 

Absolutely. The build-up to Holmes-Cooney was crazy and it was much more of a mainstream sporting event that Lewis-Bowe would have ever been.

 

I hear you. You are not wrong. But I was honestly speaking in terms of significance and my bad for not making that more clear.

 

Sly rarely concedes like this, so don't be cunts. To be honest, at the time, seeing Bowe and Lewis mix it up was the hottest ticket in town and I was wound up. I've always felt cheated and back then, in that moment, it was so huge that I'm still pissed off it never happened. I hope Rock Newman dies of syphillis and burns in Hell.