Who is this?

Neither Wlad nor Vitali are uber-talented. Wlad has been dropped and stopped by a number of bums, Vitali's best win is a loss. Your head must seriously be jammed up your soft freckled ass if you think Wlad is comparable to a prime Jones Jr.

 

Well Wlad did win Olympic gold....

 

mommy

 

Define talent.

Good luck coming up with a definition that doesn't make this statement incorrect.

 

Looks like I got some of my bitches a bit riled up. Larry Holmes is perceived to be an all-time great heavy because he was better than his peers. Not by much, but better. And not because he was somewhat better than his peers, but because he was somewhat better and an American and his peers were primarly Americans.

The Klitschko's, otoh, are a shitload better than their peers, the majority of the peers are not Americans, and the Klitschko's do not get their due.

However, anyone with any impartial sense can see that the Klitschko's would not only have dominated the 80's the same way they dominated the 00's, but they would have made Larry Holmes their bitch, as well. That would have been The Truth.

And because mY usual bitch crew has the collective reading comprehension of a slow 4th grader, you probably should read over mY post that got you all riled up and look up what the fuck 'perceived' means.

 

Cool mY, bro.

 

Oh hai der mikE ::

 

:: Hell hath no fury like a......::

I guess they still haven't found anyone.......ointlaugh:

 

Most of them reed what they like, irrespective of what was written. I have no beef with the assertion that things would be perceived to be better without the Klitschkos. Perception, and reality, being, of course, different things.

 

He's also never finished a fight on his back, unconscious, like the Uber-Talented Roy Jones. For years Roy was the man at 175- he called the shots, in and out. He didn't get paid a whole load either, {a reported $3m for his short-notice unification with the totally awesome Lou Del Valle} and when Tarver finally finished off what was left of his by-now chronically neurologically damaged ass, a lot of good fights started getting made. There was certainly no "perception" of a decline at 175. What articles or journals bemoaned the waning orbit of Planet Roy or regarded it as the passing of something brilliant, only to be replaced by torpor and stagnation?

Mikes point was valid- he used the word perceived.

 

Khan is a cunt, brown skin, black skin, in between skin, flogged skin, pale skin, Washington fucking Redskin, you name it. He's a cunt, he's a thick BMW driving, cruising, grooming cunt. An entire generation down the pisser. Thats my decision, if you don't like it, fuck off and appeal it.

 

I didn't say they weren't talented. I said they aren't "über-talented," a la Roy Jones Jr. Go punch your mother in the cunt for giving birth to a piece of shit that thought he had a point, but was really just wasting my time making me explain the obvious.

 

:: Amira must have fucked up dinner.

 

No perception of a decline at 175? WTF are you talking about? He looked shot in the first Tarver fight, the effect of taking 15-25 lbs of muscle off of an already chiseled frame. Are you saying he never fought any good fighters before Tarver?! Tarver and Harding fought each other for the right to face Jones Jr, Harding won and Jones Jr beat him. Do you really believe Jones Jr in his prime doesn't mop the floor with this entire current crop of light heavies?

This is leaving aside the fact that Jones Jr's best weight was really 168, where he is probably the greatest ever. Jones Jr is in the pantheon of ATGs at 3 weights. You are being an idiot.

 

But if he were a white cunt, you'd love him.

 

Gemma McAlcoholic must have fucked up her pregnancy by not being able to stop drinking, thus giving birth to a crippled, pathetic little creature whose idea of a witticism is employing a name commonly used by the ethnicity that is the target of said witticism.

 

She probably has a head like a welder's bench.

 

Wow

 

:: Mammy didn't drink, still doesn't. Oh well. ::

 

Hardly. I have a long and storied history of heaping scorn on Bernard Dunne, Andy Lee, and other assorted Irish bums. I didn't root for Matthew Macklin or Murray in their fights with Felix Sturm, and I didn't think either of them won. I have always objected to the farcical, contrived wankfest that was visited on the promotion of their fights, and the commentary for them, especially Dunnes- advised as I was by a guy who used to hang out at Wildcard of the reasons why Dunne left California to go back to Ireland.

 

He has a point. If it wasn't for the Klits, other fighters wouldn't intentionally be looking like crap in an effort to get a title shot.

 

Look at the Klitschkos last 20 opponents, 10 each.

How many of them have fought each other?

Its quite rare.

Wlad
*David Haye
*Samuel Peters
*Eddie Chambers
*Ruslan Chagaev
*Hasim Rahman
*Tony Thompson
*Lamon Brewster
*Ray Austin
*Calvin Brock
*Chris Byrd

Vitali
*Tomasz Adamek
*Odlanier Solis
*Shannon Briggs
*Albert Sosnowski
*Kevin Johnson
*Chris Arreola
*JC Gomez
*Sam Peter
*Danny Williams
*Corrie Sanders.

Of those 20 names, one, Peter, is common to both brothers. An X means the fight did not take place regarding the Klitschkos, a tick means it did.

Arreola fought Adamek
Peters fought Chambers
Brock fought Chambers
Sanders fought Rahman X
Ray Austin fought Solis

Of those 4 fights that were Klitschko-related, only two of them were made with a view to getting a Klitschko fight- Adamek vs Arreola {for Adamek} and Solis vs Austin {for Solis} Sanders vs Rahman belonged to the Lewis/Holy era and as for Arreola, Chambers, Brock and Peters, they were trying to get re-established after taking pretty comprehensive ass whippings in their title fights.

Stretch it back a bit further, and Chisora has fought Williams {like 5 years after Vitali did} and Ibragimov has fought Briggs.

That's 7 fights tops. 5 if you keep it to their last 20 opponents.

The problem isn't the Klitschkos. The other guys are NOT fighting each other. Remove the Klitschkos and you'll get a lot more fights happening, a lot more guys taking chances and stepping up, because they fancy their chances. Kevin Johnson is not short on talent. He has a defense, he has a jab, he has a chin. His last fight? June 2011 vs Harold Sconiers. He's not interested in fighting. He's waiting for the WBC title to become vacant. Then he'll fight.

That was Mikes point. These guys are all sitting around waiting for the brothers to lose, get injured, or plain retire. Once that happens, you will get a lot more action, and with it, the perception that things have picked up.

 

nothing in the universe can make this sorry group of shit fighters look like quality

you guys can continue chasing ghosts, believing that people think these fighters are shit because of some resentment of the Klits, if you want... but the bald truth is that people think these "contenders" are shit because they ARE

 

Racist.

 

::

 

Boxing is a manure lagoon

 

Thats all well and good- its all also off-topic. I never said the guys the Klitschkos were fighting were all quality- some of them were, some of them weren't. I was addressing Mikes point. The other fighters are not fighting each other. If the Klitschkos weren't around, there would have been more fights between these guys. Motion creates emotion. People take interest when the activity rate is raised.

 

I don't think we have it all figured out. And maybe we never will. But it seems safe to assume that having two champions, who will never have to face each other, and who confer with one another, and who are charged with taking on the same pool of challengers, is of some advantage to the champions in question. How could it not be?

As I said, I think the only debate is over the degree and nature of this advantage. At first glance, it doesn't seem to be overly significant.

 

mikE's premise was that if there are no klitschkos the scene is considered better than it presently is. There is no way to twist that to make it true. Removing the two best guys from the division does not make it a good division. Even if all of these shitpiles fought each other, it's still that - shitpiles.

mikE's reasoning for saying so can be gleaned from his usual reactionary horseshit.

 

It would not be regarded in any worse a light than it currently is, thats for sure. I'm not sure Mike is 100% correct, but- I have never seen two better fighters that were ever regarded as more of a blight or regarded with less respect than the Klitschkos- its not unfair to regard their removal as creating anything less than a positive, rather than negative, buzz.