Heavyweight title in 80s WITHOUT Tyson

Ok, another silly thread.

The idea is, remove Tyson from the scene and make a scenario of what happens in heavyweight division. So in 1986 the alphabet champs are Berbick, Tucker and Smith while Spinks has the universal recognition. Guys like Witherspoon, Bruno etc are waiting for their turn.

So, suppose any fight can be made. Who would have taken over?

 

Shouldn't Buster Douglas be included in the conversation? I think he'd had a win over Tucker.

 

He lost to Tucker in the fight for the IBF title. But yes, he is included too.

 

I don't think any of those guy were dominant or consisten enough to "take over". The title would change hands frequently between them.

 

I've always thought the best guy was Tony Tucker with Witherspoon and Carl Williams being his closest competition.

That being said, I don't know that any of them beat Michael Spinks. If not for Tyson, Spinks probably retires after the big money Cooney bout.

 

Gets passed around until Holyfield comes along.

 

Curious. Who do you think beats Tony Tucker?

 

The guy with the most potential in that group was Witherspoon, in my opinion. But he was a slob with zero dedication. In one fight (say, against Larry) he'd look downright brilliant... In another (say, Pinklon Thomas or the first Bonecrusher match) he would look bloated and disinterested

In short, none of them had the consistency to take over

 

Cool thread. I like these pointless imaginative exercises.

A Spinks-Holyfield match would have been very intriguing. Might have ended up as the showdown before the 80s were out, if Spinks was matched right. Guys like Witherspoon, Douglas & Tubbs would have the potential to beat anybody on a given day though. Lurking under the dirt like landmines, blowing legs off indiscriminately and letting others walk right through them. Foreman & Holmes would still be sniffing around, pulling off wins too. Maybe Foreman would have gotten the shot at Spinks before Holy did, with Spinks thinking it'd be an easy pay day. I think Foreman wins that. Tucker would have been a factor, too, though I honestly think the lazy trio were better on their night. Woulda been pretty cool, actually.

 

Probably no one until Holyfield comes around. Maybe passing it around is the wrong way of putting it - but I do question how the unification tournament ends up if Tyson doesn't exist.

Douglas was right there with Tucker before he fell apart.

 

I think Tucker too. Durable. Big. He beats Spinks for sure. Why did Spinks sit out sk long before fighting Tyson?

 

It was really a pretty good era. Could have been excellent if Douglas, Tubbs & Witherspoon hadn't been losers. Gets a bad rap.

 

Yep, agreed.

 

I don't wanna go there with this, but you have to wonder how guys like Tucker, Douglas & Witherspoon at their best would fare today. They're so radically better than any contenders around.

 

Its a good concept, but....we've seen Tyson destroy these chumps bar Douglas.

Therefore Douglas is the "smart" answer. ::

It definitely isn't Bruno.

I like Witherspoon without the promotional/managerial issues. Good fighter, solid background.

 

Witherspoon would be my pick also

 

what about Holmes?

 

I think Witherspoon actually had the physical abilities to beat even Tyson, but he lacked the discipline. Thus I don't see him taking over in any circumstances since even with Tyson around he could have done much better.

After Spoon the next best IMO was Thomas, but with him too the difference between good and bad days was too great. Others with physical talent were Page, Dokes and Tubbs.

The one with the best combination of talent and ability to stay in shape was IMO Tucker, who I think would have beaten the other titlists at that point, including Spinks. It could have been that Tucker had reigned as a champ for a couple of years before being outpointed by Holy, or that the title would have changed hands continuously and perhaps only a fight between Holy and Bowe in the early 90s would have unified the title.

 

While I think Tucker was consistently solid and respectable, I don't see him as innately gifted as Dokes, Witherspoon, or Page by a long shot... nor did he have the technical skills of Tony Tubbs

Of course, consistency goes quite a ways in a pool like this. I just don't think Tucker at his best was as good as each of those men were on certain nights

 

Williams, while possessing an outstanding jab and a ridiculous reach with which to exploit it, had the chin of a ballerina. There is no circumstance where I can envision him being THE MAN

 

::

 

:hammert:

 

No one unifys the titles. Maybe Holy.

 

I think Tucker was the best puncher of the group and easily had the best chin. He wasn't a technical oaf either.

This is the kind of insane shit I have in my memory, but I remember the LightHeavy gold medal bout of the 1976 Olympics. It was Leon Spinks against a Cuban named Sixto Soria. This was no pitty pat amateur boxing match. These two went at it like dogs until Spinks dropped Soria on his face in the 3rd and the ref stopped it.

Well, 3 years later at the Pan Am Games, Tony Tucker easily out-pointed Soria and ended up winning the gold. The dude could box. And he had balls of steel. He went into the Tyson bout basically without a right hand.

By the way, not for nothing, but at those same 1979 Pan Am Games, Mike McCallum got stopped in the finals by a Cuban. Oddly, Julian Jackson lost in the same weight class as McCallum in the quarterfinals.

 

This is pretty much the same thing I tried to say :: The other guys were physically more talented than him (although Tucker had reasonable speed and solid punch + chin too) but his consistency made him the best of the group

 

Tucker was a nice boxer, especially down at 220. Really effortless and fluid puncher, nice stabbing body puncher which he disguised well. Good all round. I'd say he was probably every bit as good as Douglas, Witherspoon etc, there.

Didn't like him quite as much at 235 though

 

I agree with this. The Lightheavy amateur version was a very good boxer. He used his jab as good as anyone and was relatively smooth on his feet. His was a chore to hit cleanly. People always talk about fighting 'Big'. Well Tucker used he height and reach as good as anyone.

Tucker's problems as a pro seemed to be that he was always injured and moving from trainer to trainer. Most of the front runners in the mid 80's seemed to have discipline and conditioning issues. Tucker was no exception.

 

I wonder why heavyweights have had such a problem with discipline from the 80s onward.

 

I know some of them (most notably Tim Witherspoon) liked to use mistreatment at the hands of Don King as a crutch.

 

That's illogical right there. Spinks was only without an alphabet title because he ducked Tyson at that time.

Anyway, no one would have taken over. It would have been a round robin of champions.