Does beating a guy FIRST make it a better win?

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Hut*Hut, Mar 15, 2012.

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  1. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Absolutely. After 13 years the loss no longer matters as the fighter has fully recovered, but after 4 years he's still damaged goods.
     
    mexican wedding shirt, Mar 16, 2012
    #31
  2. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    It's a fair point

    At what time does the victory over a fighter with a loss become as impressive or more impressive than the one captured by the first opponent?
     
    cdogg187, Mar 16, 2012
    #32
  3. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    Less impressive is different than damaged goods or leftovers. My point was clear. The example used in the original post was Hatton/Cotto vs. Paulie.

    I said if Cotto beats May as bad as he did Paulie, will a pac win over May mean the same as Cotto's win over a May?

    You and i both know the answer is no. Cotto's win means more. Not saying Pac's win isnt good. But Cotto's is better.
     
    Anthony, Mar 16, 2012
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  4. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    If Cotto wins an 8 to 4 decision over Floyd and makes his face swell up, then Floyd goes on to win 4 fights over decent opposition, looking at least as impressive as he ever has, then Pacquiao beats the shit out of him and stops him in 11 rounds, then yes, Pacquiao's win is more impressive.

    Just like Hatton's is better than Cotto's. I don't care if Paulie was undefeated when he fought Cotto, he looked to be a more seasoned and confident fighter by the time he fought Hatton, and got a 1 sided beating.

    You say "He looked shit", that's because Hatton was all over him ffs, Paulie didn't even get into the fight, or have the style to remotely trouble Hatton.

    As I've said before, I prefer Cotto to Hatton, I think he is a better fighter, and even at 140 would tentatively pick him over Hatton, but it's bullshit that Cotto's win over Paulie is better. It isn't.

    Hatton fought a Paulie at least as good as the one Cotto fought and stopped him in 1 sided fashion.
     
    mexican wedding shirt, Mar 16, 2012
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  5. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    That is a strange position. We must be in the twighlight Zone or something.
     
    Anthony, Mar 16, 2012
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  6. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    BTW, i love the wording here. Who said anything about Impressive? We are talking about significant.
     
    Anthony, Mar 16, 2012
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  7. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Floyd is kind of a special case scenario as his whole raison d'etre rides on being undefeated, so yes, Cotto being the first person to officially and convincingly beat Floyd would be more significant.

    Cotto over Paulie though? More significant just because Paulie was undefeated? Nah. Hatton's win was simply better. He beat a more seasoned Paulie far more impressively. It doesn't mean much that Cotto beat him 4 fights previously, it's not like Cotto's win over him is hugely significant, he was expected to win, it's not like people considered it a toss up because Paulie was undefeated :lol:
     
    mexican wedding shirt, Mar 16, 2012
    #37
  8. Neil

    Neil tueur de grenouilles

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    gotta take it on a case by case basis.
     
    Neil, Mar 16, 2012
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  9. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    You're taking about 'amount of hype at the time'. Everyone else is talking about fights.
     
    Hut*Hut, Mar 16, 2012
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  10. Slice N Dice

    Slice N Dice Big stiff idiot

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    It's a case by case basis. I do believe there is something to be said for laying the blueprint however. Calzaghe showed Ward how to beat Kessler for example, without Billy goat tactics.
     
    Slice N Dice, Mar 16, 2012
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  11. loadedgloves

    loadedgloves "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    my thoughts, pretty much
     
    loadedgloves, Mar 16, 2012
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  12. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Ward fights nothing like Calzaghe
     
    Hut*Hut, Mar 16, 2012
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  13. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    Don't mind Slice, he likes to hum on Calzaghe's balls whenever he gets a chance.
     
    steve_dave, Mar 16, 2012
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  14. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    :lol:


    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMZZ
     
    Hut*Hut, Mar 16, 2012
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  15. *Z*

    *Z* WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Someone beat him first, so of course anyone who beats him now will not deserve as much credit. :lol:
     
    *Z*, Mar 16, 2012
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  16. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    :lol: :lol:

    Exactly.
     
    steve_dave, Mar 16, 2012
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  17. *Z*

    *Z* WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    This is the right answer.
     
    *Z*, Mar 16, 2012
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  18. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    Yep. As with most things.
     
    steve_dave, Mar 16, 2012
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  19. Slice N Dice

    Slice N Dice Big stiff idiot

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    Doesn't mean he didn't follow the blueprint. He just decided to add a whole load of cheating into the mix as well
     
    Slice N Dice, Mar 16, 2012
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  20. Slice N Dice

    Slice N Dice Big stiff idiot

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    Please. I am the least biased poster here Steven. It was a great example.
     
    Slice N Dice, Mar 16, 2012
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  21. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMPPPFfffffff
     
    steve_dave, Mar 16, 2012
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  22. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    The blueprint of deciding to win instead of lose?
     
    Hut*Hut, Mar 16, 2012
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  23. Slice N Dice

    Slice N Dice Big stiff idiot

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    Utilising angles to take Kessler off the train tracks.
     
    Slice N Dice, Mar 16, 2012
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  24. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Irish, Mar 16, 2012
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  25. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Both men use angles in every fight. Ward fought exactly like he always does (throwing about 60% as many 'punches' as Joe) and so did Calzaghe.
     
    Hut*Hut, Mar 16, 2012
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  26. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Calzaghe takes no credit for Ward's win. Nice try though :lol:
     
    Hut*Hut, Mar 16, 2012
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  27. Slice N Dice

    Slice N Dice Big stiff idiot

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    Of course he does. Joe exposed Kesslers weakness, so Ward knew what to do.

    Anyway, this isn't about Calzaghe. My point is, unless it's a lucky punch, DQ or robbery, then there should be some extra kudos for laying a blueprint
     
    Slice N Dice, Mar 16, 2012
    #57
  28. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Gotta disagree with the whole blueprint stuff.

    Most fighters are sufficiently different from one another that a blueprint doesn't mean much, it's not that easy to copy a blueprint. It might give the fighter more confidence knowing his opponent has been clearly beaten, but not much more than that.

    I agree with Hut in that Calzaghe and Ward fight like they always do, Ward just stepped it up a notch and put on a career best performance, cheating 'n all.
     
    mexican wedding shirt, Mar 16, 2012
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  29. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Again....both fought exactly like they always do. Those dedicated hours with his flashdance fitness DVD won it for Joe in the latter half of the fight, Ward's skill won it for him. Their strategies were nothing like each other and everything like the way each fights everybody else.
     
    Hut*Hut, Mar 16, 2012
    #59
  30. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    :lol:
     
    steve_dave, Mar 16, 2012
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