Trinidad (Prime) vs Martinez @154!

I might agree with this, but to say that Pavlik was a better fighter outright is just ridiculous.

 

Trinidad was a better boxer, had better footwook, fought inside better, fought outside better, PUNCHING POWER EQUAL??? ::::::...yeah okay.

Trinidad was a much better fighter than PAVLIK...though a fight at 160 would be a pick 'em....IMO. But the version of Pavlik that Martinez fought...I would pick Trinidad to beat him easily.

 

I hope you are not saying that 'p4p Tito was better' because those p4p fights are plain stupid. Tito had the better career but we are comparing them head to head, which is the only way that tells us something about this fight. Tito wouldn't have his 'p4p edge' in the ring against Martinez either.

And yes, PUNCHING POWER EQUAL! Tito had some good KOs in jr middle but Pavlik was a big puncher at middle, I'd say they rank pretty equal in that department. And ::::::

 

I'm not talking P4P....Trinidad was just a plain better fighter than PAVLIK...Head to Head I PICK Trinidad...

 

i think in my ind seargio would of circle cheato around and box him silly ud 12

 

:bears:

 

I don't think Sergio is such a great boxer

He's a repetitive pot-shotting specialist who happens to go in circles a lot... But he didn't look like a great boxer against the last two bums he's fought or anyone prior to that, really.

Two of the guys who made Trinidad, at his peak, look the fool were textbook boxers with excellent technical skills and defense... the Third who made him look foolish a bit past his prime was a guy with a completely different style who stood straight up, covered up extremely well and stuck his jab out there, occasionally backed up by a straight left. I think all three of those guys mop up against Martinez's best scalps. I think Trinidad does as well. He'd break Cintron in half, he would not need a rematch with Paul Williams and he damn sure isn't letting the likes of Macklin hang around for 11 rounds. And I think he'd fuck Pavlik up.

I don't see any reason why Trinidad couldn't take advantage of the many mistakes Martinez makes, nor do I see Martinez as having some great jab either.

 

Martinez was hit repeatedly by Paul Williams.

I don't think P-Will does anything better than Tito.

 

Sorry, but Pavlik is/was a better MW than Tito. Tito was a very good welter and a good light-middle. He did fuck all at 160 to show he was better than Pavlik. Nothing.

Anyway, I take Tito here. Martinez is hittable and, against Tito (at 154), that's bad news. Sergio sleeps, around the 10th

MTF

 

I don't think the post-Staph, post-Hopkins alcoholic Pavlik was as good as Trinidad at middle though.

I agree with your pick. Tito was solid at 154.

 

Bit swayed by cdogg, puerto rock & MWS' arguments. Making me rethink my stance. Thinking about it, Tito may have been a shitty MW even in his prime, but it was an ATG MW that made him look that way.

 

The same ATG that lost to Taylor who lost to Pavlik. Simple, I know, and often not a good way of dealing with these things but Pavlik, pre-infection and pre-booze, was very solid. Much better than Joppy, who was Tito's best MW win. IMO Pavlik is much more proven at 160 than Tito. He is the pick between the two.

MTF

 

I don't believe Hopkins lost to Taylor, and even if you think he did, the version that fought Taylor was markedly different from the one that fought Tito.

 

I think he did, twice, by a round. Not really wanting to do that again. IMO Hopkins lost to the first and last world class middles he fought. Again, don't really want to do that again. Hopkins IMO is a freak of nature who has lost once, in elite company, since a 'shot version' lost to Taylor.

More to the point; how many world class middleweights did Tito beat? The answer is none. The first one he fought he got hammered. Pavlik campaigned there, smashed almost everyone he faced there, including Taylor, then hit the booze and fell apart. He is much, much more proven there than Tito, who is hittable and hurtable. Hopkins beat Pavlik by being crafty, slow, pot-shotting and generally Bernard. Tito was essentially a banger.

Pavlik beat those types.

MTF

 

I don't think it was the "same" Hopkins who fought Taylor in 2005, though.

 

Who lost to ATG.

 

Nor do I, but nor do I think he was as diminished as people claim. He's lost once in seven years since.

Do you think Pavlik is a less proven middleweight than Tito?

MTF

 

Nah, it was just that one point I had an issue with.

I'd say the 2001 Hopkins probably wins 9 or so rounds against Taylor. And I agree with you on the first Hop/Taylor fight. Clear 7-5 win for Taylor. Seven rounds you simply couldn't score for Bernard.

The rematch was tougher to score because I was drunk and haven't bothered to rewatch. From what I can remember it was one of those fights that truly could have gone either way depending on what you like.

 

That's fair.

MTF

 

Of course it is. I wrote it. :nono:

 

Plus Pavlik, no matter how you rate him at best, was clearly not at his best when he lost to Martinez... I think that same Pavlik,being rather easy to hit, would have a LOT of trouble against Trinidad, I think Trinidad would beat him frankly.

 

Pavlik hit hard and he would have definitely given Trinidad some problems with that.

But I think Tito pre-retirement was quicker and a sharper puncher than Pavlik. Tito would be able to force the mid-range/close range fight and he'd be able to get to Pavlik with those short hooks and uppercuts inside. Pavlik doesn't really clinch nor "spoil" inside the way Hopkins has the ability to do so. Tito wins that war IMO.

As for Martinez "Like I said before," any fighter who has any sort of slick movment and athleticism seems to beat Trinidad on this forum. Its become almost TRENDY to say that... I acknowledge that Tito was overrated in his prime, but I have absolutely NO DOUBT that he would rule at 154 today and the only one capable of beating him would be Floyd Mayweather. But any of the likes of Martinez, Cotto, Williams, Lara, Canelo, Molina, Kirkland, Cintron, Vanes, or Angulo would all get beaten by Trinidad.

Sergio has speed and athleticism but he's also quite the hittable target, and he doesn't really have a great jab, nor any inside fighting ability. I don't really see how he beats Trinidad, even if he runs all night. He'd just get run down and lose one sidedly via decision.