Middleweight PUNCHER round robin

Cdogg, I hope you aren't tryin to argue for Mugabi being as powerful as Jackson. Mugabi could crack like all Hell, don't get me wrong, but Jackson's power wasn't of his Earth.

I tend to agree with whoever said that if Jackson hit Hagler as many times as Mugabi did, Hagler would have lost.

I don't care how amazing Hagler's chin was, aint nobody taking Jackson's power 11 rounds like that without serious effects.

Hagler would have boxed Jackson.

Benn hit harder than Mugabi too. The way Benn obliterated tough chinned Dough Dewitt was more impressive than any of Mugabi's wins. Doug Dewitt had taken the left hook of Matthew Hilton (who was a devestating puncher) all night, yet Benn's left hook ruined him.

 

I would have to pick Jackson, with Benn a close runner up.

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Benn beat Jackson. He was a fucking beast at 160 and 168, crude yes, but massive balls, HUGE power, and highly aggressive.

 

When two guys with devestating power and shaky chins fight, its not really a surprise if either wins. So no, Benn KOing Jackson wouldn't be a surprise.

Jackson is the favorite however due to having better technique.

 

And that's all I was saying. I'm not saying Jackson beats Hagler. I was simply saying that Hagler wouldn't have walked through 11 rounds of clean, flush shots from Jackson OR Benn like he did with Mugabi.

 

Yeah, Mugabi was the least powerful of the 4. Which is no disgrace, cause Mugabi still hit like a sonuvabitch.

If Mugabi was around today, he'd EASILY be the P4P biggest puncher. He would have knocked every freckle off CANelo Alvarez's face.

 

This is what tips it for me. Jackson could be a wild swinging puncher at times, but his hooks and crosses were generally pretty tight. Benn didn't have the greatest defense and could stopped with one shot (like the Eubank fight). Julian probably had faster hands, and if he landed it right, anybody could be hurt (McCallum was).

 

Barely...

 

I can't for the life of me see Jackson taking Nigel's punchers whereas Benn would take a few.Both had pretty shitty chins, but Benn was bigger.

 

I never ever said that, Trplsec is unable to read

The point was that not only would Julian Jackson and Nigel Benn have been unable to really hurt Marvin Hagler, it's hard to imagine they would do any better or last any longer than Mugabi did

Seriously, that is the most overrated "good fight" ever. Mugabi MIGHT have won 2 rounds... he got his ass beaten all over the ring that night

Benn and Jackson would have gotten their fucking heads handed to them as well.

 

Seriously, how many rounds did you give Mugabi in that fight?

"walking through clean, flush shots"?

Mugabi landed some good shots here and there... the rest of the time he was pummeled... the fight was about as close as California and England

 

Yeah, so it's probably a good thing I never said the fight was close. Nor have I ever.

Having said that, being old enough to remember watching the fight live, Mugabi landed his share of clean, hard shots and made the fight very interesting. Sure, watching it now, knowing the outcome, it's easy to say Mugabi got tooled.

But it can't be denied that he found Hagler's chin often. And those same shots coming from Benn or Jackson would have had more impact.

By the way, still waiting for you to name Mugabi's best KO victim..........

 

Come on, now

This is retarded

This is not the first time you have pulled this completely meaningless position straight out of your ass. You have done it in other boxing-related topics.

"Sure, watching it now as an older person with a better understanding of the game, it's easy for me to see the plain truth that Mugabi was demolished in the fight and that he didn't land anywhere near as many incredible shots as I remembered from when I was younger and watching it live. But still, going by my original, flawed perception of the event, he landed countless bombs on Hagler so for the sake of trying to make Julian Jackson and Nigel Benn seem like great middleweights and John Mugabi not a tremendous puncher in order to have something to argue here, I will stick with my original, cloudy, exaggerated "live" recollection"

Besides the shot-in-the-dark, desperation right hand from hell on Herol Graham, who was beating him to a pulp, what was Julian Jackson's best Middleweight KO? Seriously. Jackson's KO victims were Dennis Milton, Ismael Negron and Ron Collins. He landed more shots on Thomas Tate than John Mugabi landed on Marvin Hagler, yet he's going to STOP Hagler landing less than he did on Thomas friggin' Tate whom he failed to stop. Seriously, Dennis Milton, Ismael Negron, Ron Collins... that's better than Fletcher, Hard Rock Green, Earl Hargove and Curtis Parker? How so? because Jackson was wearing a shambolic WBC belt when he was knocking out third-tier fighters and Mugabi wasn't when he was doing the exact same thing?

Benn at least has Barkley, there's an argument there. Jackson has a one-in-a-million shot over a guy who was killing him and some knockouts over third-tier fighters... Of course, he's one of McCallum's 2 or 3 biggest scalps by a mile, so it makes sense you'd greatly overrate the guy.

 

Still waiting on Mugabi's best KO victim at any weight.

Keep spinning........

 

No spinning going on, you just suck at thinking critically.

 

He is right though, Mugabi never beat a single really decent fighter (Jacquot and Fletcher do not qualify i think), but he got shitkicked by all his quality foes. Incidentally, the same is true for your other favourite crude banger, Pipino Cuevas.

 

Cyclone Hart hit as hard as Florentino.

 

I'm not a fan of either Mugabi or Cuevas. I am, however objective.

Cuevas's challengers were a solid group, your ignorance of them doesn't change that. He was a good champion who had a nice, long reign. Angel Espada 3X, Harold Weston, Clyde Gray, Miguel Campanino, Randy Shields, Pete Ranzany. All of them solid welterweights, solid challengers. Not saying it's an all-timer, but it's a good, respectable reign. And it was dominant, only the crafty, tough Shields really made a fight of it. The rest were battered.

Again, I ask, at middleweight (where this little tourney takes place), what did Julian Jackson do to deserve to be rated so highly? He landed a punch that saved him from a TKO loss on a dangerously overconfident challenger who was beating him to death... his KO victims were otherwise similar or worse than John Mugabi's at the weight.

Mugabi was a has-been by 1988, really. He lost to Hagler, got fat, was convinced by his people to get back in shape, went in there against Duane Thomas and was doing fine, winning the fight until suffering a freak eye injury from being thumbed which forced him to quit in the fight and resulted in Thomas winning the title. He was not shitkicked in any way. After that, he didn't fight for a year, got fat again, came back, managed to put together a modest win streak over HORRENDOUS opposition and got Jaquot for a title shot. He did nothing in the fight, Jaquot slipped and busted his ankle and could not continue, making Mugabi "champion"

His next two fights were both at SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT (once again, his inability to boil down to 154 clearly illustrated) and then he managed to shrink back down and defend against Terry Norris. He was completely done as a fighter, whatever he had been, whatever potential he had, was a memory. Norris got him out of there. He went right back to middleweight, fighting bums, even fighting as heavy as 177 pounds, before once again boiling down (this time to middleweight) in order to be a sacrificial name for Gerald McClellan. That was career trajectory. Quick rise, brutal comeuppance against one of the best champions of all time (who would have killed Jackson and Benn); a freak loss and then basically DONE. A name after that and nothing more.

The guy had a strange career. But anyone who thinks the guy Terry Norris and Gerald McClellan knocked out is anything like the guy who challenged Hagler just doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

 

Great history lesson but it still doesn't answer the very simple question, who do YOU think is Mugabi's best KO victim at any weight.

By the way, you can spin any of Jackson's KO's anyway you want, but at the end of the day, brutal knockouts over guys that WERE near the top of their division(s) like Graham, Norris, Drayton, Baek, etc blows away anything Mugabi did.

But it's more than that. I can remember watching Buster Drayton in battles with decent punchers like Hilton and Davey Moore yet Drayton didn't go anywhere. But the dude was absolutely rendered helpless like a ragdoll against the power of Julian Jackson.

And who knew Terry Norris had a china chin until Jackson cracked it?

This is a ridiculous discussion really. Mugabi was a thudding puncher that looked powerful against subpar opposition. Jackson could flat out bang.

To insist otherwise is just insane.

 

where's this tourney taking place again?

 

Is Rene Jacquot the best fighter Mugabi ever KO'ed?

 

he never actually KO'd him

he was a deteriorating bum by then

 

You're telling me he wasn't such a big BEAUTIFUL belter by then?

 

Dude, I clearly asked the question, WHO IS MUGABI'S BEST KO VICTIM AT ANY WEIGHT?


Damn, quit twisting and try answering.

Sheeeeeessssssssh.

 

:giggle:

he was a sensual, musty hitter

 

the question "at any weight" is irrelevant

at middleweight, where the tourney takes place, his KO victims are of a similar quality to those of Jackson... the one difference is that he never got to face a Herol Graham as his big step up... he got Marvin Hagler instead.

Seriously, Jackson's middleweight career is KOs over dogshit, and a one-in-a-million shot against an overconfident guy (who never won anything, BTW) who was KILLING him.

After that, he died against Gerald McClellan... twice, no less

 

Who should be in this round robin.

 

Another post and still no answer.


I think that says it all.

 

He was literally near killed by one of the guys already in it. Kind of makes his theoretical entry rather moot, perhaps?

MTF

 

Not at middle he wasn't. :nono:

 

I think the comprehensive nature of his near-death 8 pounds north would render his entry a little pointless. Also, he beat Jackson into shit twice, so there isn't really much point in discussing that theoretical match-up either

MTF :dunno: