So it looks like Martinez/Chavez Jr really is happening

Bradley I guess.

Floyd, Pac, Ward, Nonito, Marquez, Wlad, Bradley, Martinez, Vitali, Dawson

I'm guessing Im pretty close to everyone else except I just think people have overrated Martinez. As I see it, they've done it on the back of beating Pavlik (who everyone declared shot on the back on the same fight) & a hail mary KO of Williams. Nobody I have rated above him would have lost multiple roundsto those last two dudes he fought. Those fights and the distance fights against williams & Cintron give the real impression of how good he is, in my book. He's a good champ, but people have pumped him up too much.

 

My top 3 is the same, but I have Marquez at 4 and Martinez at 5.

If they were the same size I think Martinez would beat Bradley, KO wald pussy, and probably beat Donaire.

I used to be a big Donaire believer and he has looked amazing at times, but I'm now skeptical, he's so much bigger than almost everyone he's fought. I have a feeling at 122, more his natural size imo, he won't prove to be as good as many of us think.

Regarding Martinez, not sure you should put too much stock into him losing rounds. Sometimes it's a giveaway, but sometimes not. I think he just has a weird style and can look vulnerable at times.

Dramatically different fighter but look at Morales, his fights would always be tougher or closer than they should have been, but he was a fucking amazing fighter, and the only guy to clearly beat a post flyweight Pacquiao.

I think it's a similar story with Martinez to some extent but for very different reasons, some rounds he looks like a fart in a trance, and sometimes pretty amateurish, but when he's on point he's very effective, and he arguably hasn't lost for 12 years.

 

Chavez will beat Sergio Pussy or I will never post again Fuck Sergio Pussy.

 

Don't push your luck Ike, chavez pussy is getting stopped by sergio pussy.

 

I will offer a lifetime ban. Chavez wins. Serge pussy sucks cocadooodledoo, literally.

 

I like you posting on fightbeat, so I would advise you to just back out now. Sergio pussy is going to bash julio pussy.

At least cut your daredevil stunt down to a 1 week ban.

 

6 months, as a compromise.

 

Never mind Martinez, how about Pavlik and Williams.

 

I don't see what the evidence is that Martinez has "slowed down"... he fights in the same retarded, baboon-armed, one shot at a time style he always has. It has been LESS THAN two years since he scored the KO that turned him into a P4P legend... It has been just over two years since he decisioned Kelly Pavlik, a guy many people here were saying was "overrated", "drunk", "past his best" (whatever that means. Pavlik's best was what, one fight?) before the fight even happened.

In the less than two years since this KO, he has had three fights against shit fighters which have not been terribly taxing. They have been merely boring (especially the last two) and have shown nothing to indicate that there is anything different about Martinez now than there was before.

 

I can't help but feel such talk is an excuse if the hated Chavez Jr. should either win or prove more of a problem than many Martinez backers seem to anticipate him being... i.e. "well, the Martinez of two years ago wouldn't have lost to him"; "The Martinez who fought Williams wouldn't have struggled with him", etc., etc.

I think that is a load of nonsense based on nothing.

 

YUP.....

 

:mj:

 

I think in my mind, Martinez and Chavez are both overrated

 

There's very few, if any, fighters who wasn't on the way down at 37. Their's nothing unreasonnable in suggesting Martinez has slowed down. His 2 recent performances certainly suggest it.

 

Yep. Martinez can't fight at all. He sucks.

 

I disagree completely... there's nothing to indicate that. Why, because he failed to dominate? He's been failing to dominate his whole career.

 

cdogg bear in mind he is 37 or 38, it certainly wouldn't be far fetched to think he's starting to slow down etc now.

Nothing to do with him failing to dominate, he's rarely dominated from start to finish, more it was simply evident his reactions and physical speed are starting to diminish, that's all.

 

What I love about this board, genuinely love, is that there is literally no-one out there right now who is any good at all (except occasionally, depending on the poster, sometimes Floyd and Pacquiao). Everyone is shite and most have wonderfully derogatory names (Wald-pussy being my current personal favourite).

MTF :bears:

 

Word

 

It wouldn't be. But, I also think there's really nothing to suggest it is true.

 

But what 37 year old fighter IS as sharp and fast as they were when they were 30 or so?

Because he was such a late starter, Martinez is a relatively fresh 37 year old, far more than most fighters at 37.

But you watch say, the Bunema fight, and then watch his recent couple of fights, and it's obvious he's not as fast or sharp as he was a few years ago. He still looked good when he turned the heat up and stopped them both, but overall his handspeed, footspeed and reactions have definitely faded a bit. He's more powerful though.

 

But, wait a minute here. Nobody was calling this guy a great fighter, a P4P star when he was beating guys like Bunema. He got the star treatment off of a fight two years after the Bunema fight. He was 35 when he scored the KO of Williams. It's not like he was 29 or something like that.

 

This is the worst era in Boxing since basically ever.

 

You remind me of Owen Wilson in "Midnight In Paris."

 

That's irrelevant though. He'd already peaked by the time he starched Williams, that's just what got him more noticed. Since Bunema he's become more powerful, but his speed and reflexes have dampened.

Also, I rated Martinez long before the Tall Paul KO. I was one of the very few that picked him to beat Pavlik.

 

I think Nonito & Ward are both excellent:TLC:

 

Right. I don't think he suddenly became better, he just a very head turning run (aided by fighting people at just the right time, overrated opponents, hail mary KO punches et al). I wouldn't call it luck, but there was an element of fortune in the way things came together for him.

 

He definitely didn't become better. I think he peaked in his early 30's. One thing is for sure though, he punches harder since moving to 160.

He doesn't hit as hard as the Williams KO suggests, but it's clear from his 3 fights since then that he does have some pop at the weight.

 

Yeah he's definitely a good puncher. Not just power, but he knows how to measure a guy and set up big shots. He's a very good champ, dont get me wrong. Just not top 3 material.

 

I'd say he's punching harder because he's sitting down on his punches more. That also plays into why he's getting touched up more.