Is Wlad an All Time Great Heavyweight?

He changed? I thought he was always like that. I need to read up on this.

 

Yeah, you were saying earlier in this thread you wish he'd be more aggressive. But he's not anymore.

 

He changed his style because he participates in a sport which, in this modern era, places as much value on records as it does on anything else. Losing a fight every now and then is basically fatal in this era. That's why he changed. Changing a style doesn't make your chin any better or any worse. He's elongated his career, silenced a lot of his critics, amplified his earning potential and seems likely to retire in good neurological health. Thats as good a reason as any for a change.

 

:laughing:

 

And apparently he thinks he's the only person who ever went to college.

 

You've really turned into a pesky bitch, lately. Period?

I think my college quote had something to do with a bunch of morons around here who couldn't pass a statistics class in college. If you care enough, you go find it. Since I don't believe going to college means dickall for how intelligent someone is, nor did I express that belief, it's ironic that the morons I was referring to missed the point.

And, yes, this includes you in the moron group, woe.

 

It is funny watching you continue to make a jackass out of yourself. It's even more funny watching you act like a second-rate Jaws1216. If you're gonna borrow someone's schtick, you could at least borrow from someone who actually knows something.

 

Yup, everyone's a moron except you mikE. Misunderstood in your own time like Kafka.

 

On the contrary, there are plenty of people here who are not morons and I'd put you in that group. Perhaps I'm wrong.

It's like my positions can't be restated without being misstated.

At any rate, go find that quote about college and show me that I'm mistaken now, if you like.

 

What's a better win, beating a good, battle-tested, crafty boxer who has fought the best in the world and not embarrassed himself in the process OR beating a guy with 16 professional fights, none of them coming against anyone ranked in the top 300?

Now, this is something you would have known PRIOR to Thomas Hearns fighting either of these gentlemen... It could be accessed by anyone willing to do a little research, even in the pre-internet days... so I ask, which of those is a better win? Don't dance around it, don't rephrase it to suit your biases, tell me the answer... Shields or Primera, experienced guy who has fought everybody and given consistently good accounts of himself or inexperienced guy who has fought no one of even the slightest consequence...what's the better win?

 

I labeled it a good win. If you wanted to make Shields or some other putz the torchbearer for Hearns' career to that point, I was fine with it because it didn't matter.

Looking at it in hindsight, both wins sucked because Primera never accomplished anything and Shields was a loser.

 

Am I a moron, mikE?

 

I'm not sure.

 

Just watched Wlad-Thomson.
In light of that fight & the nature of his losses, I have find it difficult to seriously consider Wlad an ATG.

 

You can try to bluster and double talk your way out of it, but you continue to show you know NOTHING about these fighters. Sorry, but your over-reliance on BoxRec has failed you once again.

And every time you talk about them, you make even more of a jackass out of yourself.

Anyone who knows anything about these fighters and this time in boxing (not you) knows Shields was clearly the better, more experienced and more accomplished fighter at the time he fought Hearns.

 

He was an experienced loser. You are basically describing Jesse Brinkley and saying how he is clearly so much better than Mario Veit. It's not clear and it doesn't really matter.

btw, you are definitely in the group.

Oh, and how many times did you see Primera fight?

 

message board proves that most grown ups haven't evolved past grade school bullies mentality

 

shat up bich it allso proove salis wasent hurt at all against vality in my mind i think

 

outside the cuts against Lewis he would have won that fight. Remember Lewis had razor blades in his dreds

 

The thing about Wlad that carried the most weigh with me was that he has one of the best all time defenses ever, but his offensive was not good. Manny fixed that by making him hold thoughout the fight. So offensively one of the greatest ever, and now he uses holding as his defense. Like it or not the proof is in the record and Lewis did the same thing. Emanuel knows how to train and prepare tall fighters with good offense.

 

I think something was in his head in these fights Steward knew how to fix it.

 

Emaunuel left Lewis for Wlad if that tells you anything.
And said he would stay with Wlad if they ever were to fight.

 

When it comes down to it, Vitali has a better chin and defense, but not as many offensive tools. Wlad as more offensive tools but has to hold as his defense and can't take a punch as well as Vitali. Two different styles probably the same outcome at this point.

 

Terrible comparison. Which is not unexpected from you. Jesse Brinkley?? Really??

All this bullshit from someone who has never even seen Randy Shields fight. But who needs to do that when BoxRec is just a click away???

 

Wlad would not have lasted 3 rounds against Lewis.

 

ironic as it is, Im pretty sure you and your comrade have seen luis primera fight a grand total of once.

 

Sure, but that's because he never fought anyone who mattered except Hearns. Which goes back to the original point...Shields fought much better competition and was clearly the better and more experienced fighter. Primera had no business being a mandatory challenger. This all goes back to mikE making the claim that Primera was a better win simply because he was undefeated against nobodies and Shields had some losses against world class opposition.

Primera fought nobody of note, received an undeserved high ranking and title shot, got his ass handed to him by Hearns and then went straight back to obscurity. I don't see how any of that makes Primera a "quality opponent". Which, despite mikE's attempts to double talk his way out of it, is the origin of this discussion. He likes to run his mouth about how smart he is and how stupid everyone else is, and then brings up Primera as a "quality win" based on his being 15-0 at the time of the fight.

mikE tried to make it sound like at the time of the fight, Primera was considered a quality opponent instead of another of those fighters who somehow received a high rating from an alphabet org despite having zero experience at the world class level. Sorry..but that's not true.

I know you often like to be difficult just for the fuck of it, but surely you can see how that doesn't work. Do you really think a win over a fighter who is undefeated in only 15 fights and has zero fights against quality opposition trumps a win over fighter who has losses, but has faced both good and great fighters and gave a good account of himself most times?

 

None of this changes the fact that Vitali lost because a career high weight Lewis punched Vitali in the face many, many times and splattered his face.

MTF

 

Punching Vitali in the face until it splattered was a very intelligent tactic from Lewis:bears:

 

If he was ATG you think HBO would had stopped airing his fights?