B.J. Penn offers to pay for UFC 152 testing if VADA willing to hold results until aft

The point of an analogy is not that it is exactly perfect in every way, but that it demonstrates the point. When a fighter makes weight and a different fighter doesn't, the advantages of the fighter who didn't make weight are very comparable to a PED using pos, i.e. stronger than he should be, less drained than he should be, etc.

The fact that you can just change the weight class doesn't do dick all for the guy who made the lower weight, nor change the inequities of the situation for that fighter.

The way it is usually handled is to let the fighter who makes weight get a portion of the other fighter's purse, get other concessions, or let that fighter decide he doesn't want to fight the heavier fighter. The analogy can't be much closer to Penn's situation than this. And Penn is just saying up front that he will go ahead and fight the cheater.

I would, and did, support a fighter who insists upon PED testing even when it isn't mandated by the commission because I hate PEDs more than probably anything else in boxing and mma, but I also believe in an individual's rights to control their own life. Penn is willing to assume the danger of fighting a cheater in order to get paid. That's not exactly any different than most fighters have been willing to accept for the past 20 years. The only difference is that the possibility may exist that the cheating is known ahead of time.

Is it reasonable to believe that a commission or sanctioning body should not let Penn have this choice under these circumstances? Probably. I just disagree.

 

Help is the key word there.
Letting a guy fight period is not protecting them. It's a contact sport where there is serious injury, and potentially death at least in boxing. Even if you have insane testing in place, there is always potential for something to slip by.

You have to understand the promotional / money side to it. You can call it what you want but having a guy fight on juice is NOT like letting them bring a gun into the ring, it simply increases the chances for them to win, but ultimately it is up the training of the ringside doctors, ref and most importantly the fighter themselves to protect themselves in the ring.

To say that serious penalty, (let's say 2 year for first offense and life ban for 2nd offense, just as an example) , would not help prevent cheating is ridiculous.

That's why I made the murder comparison.. or would you suggest the high probablity of life imprisonment for murder does not help prevent murders ??

Baby steps....

 

I don't care about the promotions having to cancel a show. Fire the guy who fucked it up and move on and maybe the next guy will think twice.

 

I think you're crazy.

 

Not at all.

 

So you don't think that UFC/MMA should take a step that will undoubtedly help to clean up the sport while causing little change to the existing promotional structure, simply because the existing juiced fighters that have fought many of times on roids (and otherwise will freely continue to do so) would potentially step in the ring 1 more time while roided ?

 

No, I will never agree with allowing a fighter on PED's in the ring with another man.

 

Did I say that? Didn't think so.

 

Who has ever come in 20lbs heavy? If someone did, the fight would be canceled.

 

I have never seen a guy come in 20lbs over. At least come up with something that has happened in the history of fight sports.

 

In that case you should ban all contact sports, since it happens every single day that these sports exist.

 

Z, arguing that reasonable steps shouldnt be taken to limit PED use, just because they would have loopholes is the same as Anthonys argument saying guns should be freely purchased by everyone, since criminals would buy them anyways if they were banned.

 

I don't think that's what he is arguing. Rather, he is arguing that once you know a guy is cheating, he shouldn't be permitted to fight even if his opponent would still fight him.

It's more like a landlord not caring if a known felon possess a gun on his property and allowing the felon to remain on the property paying rent. If Z's argument stays similar in this example, he wouldn't permit the felon to remain on the property, he would charge him criminally, and the landlord would be out $.

 

If it take the cops a week or two to arrest the felon, then shouldn't the felon still have to pay rent for the time that he's there ? Or should they just have to walk in and clean up all the cheetos and pizza boxes from the floor and not get paid anything in return ?

 

At least someone gets it.

 

Wait, so now we are talking about a guy making weight but rehydrating? Personally, I don't care what the weight difference in the ring is if both fighters make the contracted weight.

You're reaching here for sure.

Just face the facts, there is no reason to test at all if you're going to let a guy fight if he' caught anyway. the whole purpose of testing is to NOT allow a fighter to fight on PED's.

 

They did away with same day weigh ins for a reason. Guys will still cut weight and then fight dehydrated which is dangerous.

I find it funny that you're arguing for PED use.

 

Anthony is really getting lost on this one. Steroids are cheating. Weight cutting is not. Everyone can legally cut as much or as little weight as they want. The playing field is level.

All the analogies are funny too. There really isn't a comparison or analogy necessary. Z's point is really simple. If you're cheating, you should not be allowed to fight.

For the sake of staying funny, here's an analogy. If a guy was carrying a knife into the cage, would you let him go ahead and fight, but punish him afterwards?

Honestly, the other analogies are literally that stupid.

 

Dude, you keep throwing out 20 pounds. Give me an example of someone that out-weighed their opponent by 20 pounds on fight night. Obviously HW doesn't count. My guess is the instances are rare. Almost EVERYONE cuts weight in today's MMA. The disparity isn't commonly 20 pounds. That's ridiculous.

That aside, it's not a FACT that either is more dangerous. And considering many PEDs are used to cut weight, your point kind of argues against itself.

But essentially, the question isn't about danger. It's about letting a guy CHEAT. Personally I'm not in favor of allowing a fighter to cheat.

You're in favor of letting cheaters fight and that's fine. I just think it's wrong.

 

Thank god someone with some sense showed up in here. Bless your heart Trplsec.