What happened to in-fighting?

It seems to me that, if it isn't dead in modern boxing, in-fighting is gulping for air and in pretty bad shape. I can think of 3 credible explanations for why - which would you apportion most blame to?

1) Ugo's hypothesis that taller fighters adopted the strategy of clinching when shorter fighters got close because they observed that it worked well. That infighting is dying out in a process of strategic natural selection, basically.

2) A shift towards 'busy' reffing that favours breaking fighters quickly. Where once a ref might have slapped down an arm and insisted guys fight their way out, now fighters know the action will be broken and taken back to range at the first sign of an entanglement.

3) Amateur rules. Since inside fighting is less likely to score points under modern olympic style scoring and 6 (/9) minute fights are too short for bodywork to impact the fight otherwise, coaches have little incentive to teach the skill set to kids.

4) All of the above, about equally.

5) None of the above (give alternative explanation, please).

 

I think Ugo is correct here, and this tactical (negative) development has lead to the changes in refereeing. Third also makes sense in theory but there are so many fighter who don't train for amateurs (or make the transition so young) that it shouldn't show

 

If we could just clone Joseph Cooper and have him ref every fight I suspect everything might be OK.

 

A combination of the stated factors. I do think that ammy fighting plays a large part, though; even though we only see a small proportion of those who actually train in ammy conditions (because only the best handful compete in the few tourneys televised) there will be huge chunks of fighters who start out training as if ammys but don't make it to a high level there and then turn pro with their initial training and skill-set in mind. There is very, very little point in body punching in ammy training or fighting.

MTF

 

It's a combination.

It seems like there's two types of reffing strategies that are becoming prevalent.

#1. "I'm fair, but I'm firm............in my underoos when I see two grown shirtless men clutch-humping in front of thousands of innocent people.

ex. Joe Cortez


#2. Break these guys, break these guys...........gotta get my face on camera...........did you see that pops, I'm a ref on National TV now, are you proud of me, huh, are you proud of me............look at me pops, I'm the center of attraction, there will be no in-fighting on my watch.........did you see me push that guy back to his corner, I'm a star pops, I'm a star..................please love me!!!!

ex. Lawrence Cole, Jay Nady



The Steve Smoger's of the World who just let guys fight but know the right time to break them up and warn them for holding, are growing few and far between. Kenny Bayless is pretty good to, of just staying out of the way. That guy who Amir Khan hated against Petersen was also good, as much flak as he got for his performance.


Oh yeah, that whole Olympic/Amateur thing...........definitely is also a factor. Promotes shitty footwork and pot-shotting.

 

Amateur boxing is largely to blame. It's a very different sport now and doesn't prepare fighters at all for the traditional pro style anymore

 

Kids who grew up watching fighters like Jones Jr and old Ali tapes are contributing too.

They try to steal the outside flash, don't learn any of the substance.

 

Hopefully enough kids grow up watching Mayweather. His one gift to the sport could be popularizing hard work and craft.

 

Jones could in-fight.

 

The problem is that Floyd doesn't fight like any modern amateur. Anyone who tries to fight like him won't be successful in the amateurs and thus most likely will never pursue a pro career.

Something needs to be done about amateur boxing.

 

Right, as per my second sentence.

 

Why not? Single right hands down the pipe and a tough head to hit clean would rake up all kinds of points in ammy boxing, no?

 

great post, there's definitively a problem with in fighting in pro boxing and I think it's mainly because the ref don't enforce the rules properly. They should let them fight of the inside and allow a fighter who is being held to dirty box is way out of the clinch all while he's slapping down the arms of the hodling boxer. Nowaday, as soon as they are in a clinch, they stopped the fight and reset it from far afar wich favor the taller outside fighter.

 

Yeah, that's the way I feel too. I think 1 & 3 contribute too, but if refs enforced the rules properly they could arrest those influences.

'Fight your way out'

'Next time it's a point!'.

Problem (half) solved.

 

Or, learn to deal with your opponents clinching tactics and don't beg help from the ref :stir:

 

Do you think that's possible?

 

All of the above and then some more besides.

Some guys can't fight on the inside, or fight far better on the outside than they do on the inside. That accounts for some boxers......

......then you have got how boxing is sold and marketed. Everyone is an "athlete". Every fight must be a "hand-speed" extravaganza. It's as if putting the ear muffs on and standing at close quarters is a sign of backwardness or, shock horror, a lack of athletic ability.

Olympic boxing, the fighters themselves, could spend all their time and effort engendering an in-fighting mentality, but it would be very quickly cast aside as soon as they realized that there was much more kudos to be acquired from flashing the hands, running away, washing, rinsing, repeating, etc.

So we can't blame the amateur mechanism alone.

Who wants to fight anymore? Who wants to get bashed in the head these days? You can fight on the inside, or want to fight on the inside, and nobody will ever give you any love or respect in any case, you'll just get shoeshined to death, held, pushed away, spend all night running after a guy and drop a decision in any case.

 

I'm not sure that's 100% true. The hype machine likes a good, inside action fighter as much as we do.

 

Getting inside is one thing. Being a good infighter is a totally different thing. The infighter can fight as safely on the inside as the runner can on the outside. There are loads of guys who need to get inside, but it doesn't mean they are any less vulnerable or really all that effective, they are just less ineffective than they are on the outside.

 

That's all fair. The part is bold is a great point.

 

DeGale fights inside

 

Yeah, and he'd be getting stopped inside 3 rounds if he'd signed the contract.

 

Nothing happened to it.

 

What makes you say that? You don't think there's less infighting/more clinching than there was 20, 30 years ago?

 

The beginning of the end of great craft was the invention of TV.

 

Hut, in all honesty I think it's basically down to balls.

It takes some fucking balls to fight inside. It really does.

These days, it's so important to "Keep that 0" and not get a loss and all that, fighters do "fight not to lose" as I've before, rather than fight to win.

Escapeology and leap amateurism, clinching etc, are all major components in fighting not to lose and getting relatively cheap wins, taking as little risk as possible.

Fighters these days are simply more pussified, it's all about records, money etc, and the style of boxing has evolved into something far more safety first than it used to be, both inside and outside of the ring.

Fighting inside takes balls and craft, but getting hit is an inevitability, you just have to accept it and roll with punches, avoid taking them flush. It's simply not something that appeals to the mindset of contemporary fighters imo.

 

Inside what? A ring?

 

If anything, Floyd fights more like a slick guy from the 50s and 60s. One of the reasons I have enjoyed watching him despite my intense dislike for him

Regrettably, the leap amateur style is now an epidemic and I don't see the tide turning any time soon. It's likely going to get worse before it gets better (if)

 

Any of you guys read a novel called 'The Professional' by W.c. Heinz?

 

Floyd actually fights allot like George Benton now except with more cheat moves. He's great to watch now.