what do we think of Broner?

seriously, Cosell as a source for anything other than lulz is highly suspect

 

I liked Broner a lot before this fight. Thought his attitude was light-hearted and fun, even if over the top.

He seems to have turned into an asshole, almost overnight.

We'll see how the next few fights turn out. I still like his style in the ring, so far. Hope to see him step it up opponent wise, very soon.

 

Cosell was basically a high-brow, more reliable form of Bert Sugar. An emotive, instinctive, reactionary sort of guy prone to uttering ill-conceived blurts. His rant against boxing in the 1980's was completely out of order.

 

"Duran quit because of the ring"

- CDogg, Mex and Loadedgloves

 

Musze, do you feel an Asiatic invasion is a likelihood?

 

Nah, he quit because Ray wasn't fighting. He was running, clowning, and as Hut would put it, "acting like a fanny." Everything BUT fighting. The ring just facilitated his shameful behavior.

 

As if In 8 Rounds, Leonard NEVER Landed a Single, Solitary, MEANINGFUL Punch...Duran Quit Because he was Embarrassed & MINDFUCKED....Simple as THAT....



REED:shit:

 

As usual, you don't read anything, you make assumptions. I'm nowhere to be found in the Duran worship brigade. Great, great fighter but never a particular favorite of mine, really. You could have exchanged cdogg for hut

 

maybe so, maybe not

Your take is as crazy as theirs, though, man

It was a competitive, up-in-the-air fight

"mindfucked" makes it sound like Leonard was winning 7-0 which is complete and utter bullshit

 

No, YOUR Take is BULLSHIT Here, Bro...You're SUPPORTING this RIDICULOUS, Duran is Superman Take on the RE, which is Assinine...

Was Leonard LANDING the Cleaner, Harder Punches w/MORE Frequency, Yes or No???...Did Leonard Land ANY Clean, Hard Punches, Yes or No???...Dudes R LITERALLY Posting on this Thread, Saying "All Leonard Did was RUN", yet YOU have a Fucking Problem w/REED's Take???...That's a GOTdamn JOKE, Bruh...

In VASTLY Different Ways, Leonard-Duran II was as "Competitive" as Leonard-Duran I was, Meaning it was a CLEAR WIN for the Victor...But for SOME Reason, Sack Swingers have a PROBLEM even Admitting that Leonard WASN'T Completely Dominated in the 1st Bout, While Simulataneously Trying to Portray the RE as an Even CLOSER Fight...

When REED Says "Mindfucked", he Means that Leonard EMBARRASSED Duran into WILLINGLY Accepting Only his 2nd Loss in OVER 70 Bouts, 1 Fight After LOSING to him...He CLOWNED Duran, the Crowd was Actually LAUGHING AT Duran, then he QUIT...Dude COULDN'T Even Hold his Head Up High when he Quit, CONTRARY to the NUTHUGGING Fallacy that he was Simply "Fed Up" w/Leonard's Tactics & Said "Fuck It"...If that WERE the Case, WHY Did Duran DROP his Head in SHAME, as he Quit???....

If U HONESTLY Think REED's Take is MORE Presposterous than the Duran Nuthugger Take is, YOU have the Problem, Bro....

REED:shit:

 

Well, that's cool. I didn't say that AT ALL, but whatever.

"Your take is as crazy as theirs, though, man"

I stand by that

Your version of events (i.e. Leonard completely dominating, total wipeout, 7-0 fight) is AS out of line with reality as their version (i.e. Leonard did literally nothing but run, Duran's quitting is totally understandable)

The fight was competitive, which is what makes Duran quitting all the more inexcusable.

 

The fact that Leonard threw a token punch now and then didn't change the fact that 99% of what he was doing was running, clowning, pausing to mug, lather, rinse, repeat.

All but the worst Duran haters/Leonard nuthuggers will acknowledge that the Duran in the rematch was not Duran at his best. Not in a thousand years does any version of Leonard beat the Duran from Montreal.

The best version of a welterweight Duran, which was not even the best overall version of Duran, was better than the best version of Leonard in his own natural weight class.

 

leonard was up 5-2 in the rematch and it was only getting wider and wider. if he didnt stop duran it would have been 11-4 at worst

duran gave up because he didnt think he could win

 

Duran moved up two divisions and beat an ATG in their prime, at their best weight. The equivalent for Ray would have been to move up and take on Hagler in his prime. Of course, we all know he waited until Hagler was old and then demanded a 24x24 ring (again), 12 rounds instead of 15, etc. Against Duran and Hagler, Ray did his best fighting at the negotiating table.

 

Reed, the fight was very close, one round or so, give or take. The impression that Ray was bossing it, winning it hands-down, fighting his own game, is a myth.

 

Thanks for Actually HIGHLIGHTING your OWN Idiocy...The Leonard that Beat Tommy Hearns (You Know, The Same Guy that Completely OWNED Duran), was THE BEST Version of Leonard there Ever Was...

Nice Try Though, Sack Slurper...



REED:boohoo:

 

But U're Only RESPONDING to REED's Take, which is Silly, Considering Guys have Basically Adorned Duran w/a Fucking Cape & Drawn an "S" on his Chest in their Favorite Shade of Lipstick...

Guys in this Thread Give Duran EVERY SINGLE BENEFIT of the Doubt Imaginable, yet YOU'VE Consistently had a Problem w/REED's Take???...Again, that's BULLSHIT....

When did REED EVER Describe it as a 7-0 Fight????....REED Said Leonard was "Clearly WINNING" the RE, which he was...



REED:boohoo:

 

What evidence do you have to show that that Leonard was better than the one who fought Duran in Montreal? The fact that Leonard got outboxed for long stretches by a drained Hearns, was the beneficiary of an early stoppage, and then of course refused to grant Hearns a rematch because he knew he'd lose?

Sack slurper? Are you 5 years old?

 

Can you imagine a featherweight moving up to 135 and beating Duran?

 

Hmmmm...

How Bout THE FACT that Hearns is/was Arguably THE Most Physically IMPOSING Fighter in the History of the Sport...A 6'2 WELTER w/a Record of 32-0, 30 KO's Going Into the Fight w/Leonard...Not to Mention All that Hearns Accomplished Post-Leonard I (Wiping his Ass w/Duran, Fight of the Year vs. Hagler, World Titles All the Way up to 175, etc.)...

1nce Again, U Paint a Leonard Fight w/a SLANTED Brush..."Drained" Hearns, "Early Stoppage"...WOW!!!...

Leonard was Roughly 3 Years Into his Pro Career when he Lost to Duran...HOw Many Fighters Are At THEIR BEST 3 Years In???...After that, Leonard BEAT Duran & Won a Title @ 154 PRIOR to Facing Hearns MORE THAN A YEAR AFTER "No Mas"...What Evidence do YOU Have that Leonard was in his PRIME when Duran Beat him (FYI, Nuthuggery ISN'T Evidence, Homegirl)????...

Is REED 5 Years Old???...No, but Given the Carte Blanche U've Allowed Duran, the Unadulterated IDOL WORSHIPPING U've Heaped Upon him in this & Other Threads, REED's Beginning to Wonder if U're Pre-Pubescent...


REED:hammert:

 

Can you Imagine the "Ultimate Fighting Machine" Being UNABLE to Cut Off the Ring & Compounding this FLAW in his Game by QUITTING, w/7 Rounds Remaining in a Fight???...

Nah, REED Couldn't Either...

REED:dancingBaby:

 

I dunno man, if there's a difference it's minor. Leonard was 24, had extensive amateur experience & had already clocked up significant scalps including Benitez, which was a 15 round win. Hearns was barely more than a year later. And whats more the '154 angle' can be argued the other way - coming down in weight rarely does a fighter good, even if it doesn't do significant harm.

Was Leonard slightly more seasoned a year later when he fought Hearns? I'd agree, yes. Is the difference big enough to squabble over either way? Hardly.

 

*Unable to cut off a 24 foot clown ring against one of the fleet footed fighters OAT determined to run around the perimeter and avoid exchanges at all costs.

 

This from the SAME Poster who Argues that Roy Jones Beat a "Green" Bernard Hopkins???...If REED's Said it 1nce, he's Said it a THOUSAND Times; Duran Fans Burn the Candle from BOTH Ends...

Based on the Sheer EXPERIENCE of Having Faced Duran Twice AND Winning a Title @ '54 (vs. an Underrated Champion in Ayub Kalule), there's No Doubt that Ray Leonard was a BETTER Fighter in the Hearns Fight, than he was in the 1st Duran Fight...He was More SETTLED Into his Career by Then...Leonard Himself ADMITS that Duran INTRODUCED him to Psychological Warfare...OVERCOMING this in the RE HAD to Make Leonard a BETTER Fighter...Also, Based Solely on MATHEMATICS, Leonard HAD to Be Better...Hearns I was 15 Months & 4 Bouts AFTER Duran I...R U HONESTLY Telling REED that Leonard PEAKED @ 24 & was NO BETTER 15 Months & 4 Bouts Later???...

agREED that the Difference ISN'T Substantial, but Suggesting Duran Beat THE BEST VERSION of Ray Leonard is ABSURD & Fuuuuurther Proof of the SICKENING Level of the Messageboard Fellatio Duran Receives...

REED:hammert:

 

Again, Leonard NEVER 1nce Stopped to THROW, Nevermind LAND a Punch???...Is that REALLY What U're Saying???...If Not, Please STOP Being Sooooo GOTdamned ABSOLUTE w/your Statments...

"All he Did was Run"....He "Avoided Exchanges @ All Costs"...



REED:boohoo:

 

I'd say Leonard was at his peak in both of those fights, there was no real difference, if you watch his fights around this time.

 

OK, hows this - he reduced exchanges as much as he could, without completely giving away rounds. Which when you're as quick on your feet as Leonard & have an outsized ring to work with is an offensive amount.

 

The only real difference was that he learned how to win his fights at the negotiating table.

 

I don't see any real inconsistency there. You have to take fighters on a case by case basis. Hopkins style and overall career arc are very different from Leonard in all sorts of ways.

I think we'd both agree both men were slightly pre-peak in the fight's we're talking about, though apparently we differ on by how much. Personally I think Hopkins was about 5 years from peak and Leonard about 5 months, so the difference is pretty big, to me. Apparently we disagree.

 

Leonard was 24 in Duran I...If REED Isn't Mistaken, Bernard was 28 During Roy I....Guys R MORE Likely to Be at their Best @ 28, than 24, Bro...MORE Times than Not, this Also Applies to Prizefighters...YOU KNOW it & REED Knows it...

Considering Leonard's AGE & WHO he was Fighting (Duran AGAIN, Ayub Kalule & THEN Hearns), it's QUITE Reasonable to Believe that he IMPROVED Over that Stretch...Had Leonard Been Fighting BUMS, the Idea of him Becoming STAGNANT @ 24 Would Be More Plausible...But he WASN'T...Dude was Fighting THE Best Competition Imaginable...

In the Hearns Fight, Leonard Showed an ADAPTABILITY we Hadn't Seen from him Previously...The 1 Other Time Leonard was Forced to Consider ALTERING his Style, he'd Already LOST to Duran in Montreal...Leonard Fought DIFFERENTLY in the RE, but he Already had an "L" on his Record....With Hearns, there was a MID-FIGHT Adjustment...Leonard Went from Staying AWAY from the KO Minded Hit Man, to Stalking & HURTING Him, in a Matter of a Handful of Rounds...

That's an IMPROVEMENT Leonard Made to his Boxing Game...That's an Instance of him Showing he was a BETTER Fighter than he was 15 Months & 4 Bouts Prior, in REED's Opinion...




REED:mj: