what do we think of Broner?

Let's Be CLEAR about your Interpretation of "Exchange"...

Was Leonard OBLIGATED to Stand Still Long Enough for Duran to Unleash a Series of Blows @ Him, in Order for an "Exchange" to Ensue, by YOUR Definition???...

While he Certainly Didn't Break Any Punchstat Records that Night, it's NOT as if Leonard WASN'T Throwing Leather @ Duran...He Punched On HIS OWN Terms...




REED:mj:

 

I wonder why Leonard refused to give Hearns an immediate rematch?

 

Because there is no point in arguing it with them. I gave up on debating Duran with Hut about 100 years ago. You aren't some Leonard nuthugger, so I figure you would be more reasonable to debate with, at least solely on your points about the fight.

 

This runs hand in hand with the myth that Duran beat the shit out of Leonard in the first match. Two judges had Duran by one point and another judge had Duran by two.

It was a close fight.

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle of both extremes

REED is right that Leonard did more than just run around, he is also right that he was ahead in the fight, not monumentally ahead, but ahead and the momentum was going his way at the time Duran quit... REED is also right that Duran deserves criticism for quitting.

Hut/Loaded/MWS are right that Leonard definitely benefited from the unusually large ring, he did fight on the negative side and gets too much credit for showboating (same thing happened in The Hagler match, and again the negotiating table laid the groundwork) and "altering his strategy" (the alteration was aided heavily by the actual ring itself which severely diminishes that claim)

It's a mix of all of those things on both ends

 

well, he did have a detached retina. He fought Bruce Finch and then called it a day for a few years.

 

And the terms were framed by the size of the ring and the amount of running he did in it. It was stink, in the common parlance.

 

Leonard suffered a detached retina in his next fight then retired for two years.

So now you know.

 

More often than not. But not in these cases. Tyson peaked at 22, Lewis at 34, I'm sure we can both think of many more 'outliers' from the normal curve. You probably more than me.

With the rest of your post I pretty much agree. Perhaps I don't think the difference is quite as pronounced, but we disagree only in degree. And allot of the ground for our difference in perception there is probably in our different interpretations of the rematch, which I feel leads to a general overestimation of Ray's powers of 'adaptability'. But that's been done to death (down with clown rings, shalom).

 

Broner's personality is going to turn some folks off (and sell fights) but he seems to be a stand up guy outside the ring too. The only "celeb" I know that personally responds to fans on facebook.:bears:

 

:tick:

 

Hi there, long time no see. :bears:

 

I don't know. Depends upon whether his girlfriend was in on it when he pretended to ask her to marry him.

If not, that's a horrible thing to do to somebody on national TV.

 

You think he would've fought Hearns otherwise? Why was he fighting Bruce Finch instead of Hearns in an immediate rematch? Do you think he beats Hearns in a rematch?

 

Leonard didn't want any part of Hearns to begin with. He only fought him because the public pressure grew too great. He didn't want to move up and fight Hagler, the way Duran fought him. He waited until Hagler was old. The only reason he fought Duran was because Duran was supposed to be the smaller guy and an easy mark for him. Duran, conversely, moved up and fought the much bigger Hagler in Hagler's prime.. without running from him the entire time.

There's just no comparison between the two fighters. Leonard made fucking DONNY LALONDE come down to 168 for a 175 lb title fight. Can you imagine Duran pulling some shit like that? :: Leonard was a gay ass diva.

 

Hearns had a fight in between the Leonard-Finch fight. So Hearns was the one immediately unavailable not Leonard.

Plus, Leonard had a badly swollen eye that needed time to heal. It's possible he suffered retinal damage in the Hearns fight.

 

Again, I have no horse in this race, I have never been part of any Leonard-Hearns beef.

If Ray had gotten the narrow decision vs Duran, he would have never rematched him.

If Ray had not gotten the W over Hearns, he would have begged for a rematch. On his own terms.

None of this is objectionable behaviour per se. Human nature dictates we look for the easy way out.

When Vlad beat Peter in a damn close run thing, he didn't waste any time looking for rematches.

Same with Oscar when he beat Quartey, same with Tito when he "beat" Oscar.

 

:atu:

 

Well, this is what it has become around here. However, we must, like the poor wretched Native Americans, we must "endeavour to persevere"

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OK, I will concede this point with the qualifier that Hearns would have hands down beaten Gay Ray in an immediate rematch, just as he did 8 years later.

 

What's up Irish. I got busy with life. Moved across country and back, got married, just had a daughter in February. Boxing will always be my favorite sport though so here I am. :shadow:

 

You used to be here a lot back in the day. Still lifting the weights?:truce:

 

Not really. I'm down to maybe once a week these days.