Any historical precedence for what happened Saturday night?

So you're fully on board then with the understanding RJJ was on roids for the Ruiz fight? And Hopkins for that matter?

Nevertheless, Trinidad, while being skinny at 147, was never particularly carved the way JMM had been at 126. Apples to oranges.

Are you saying that no boxer can be expected to move up in weight and add muscle, not fat, without being on PEDs?

Again, I can't prove JMM didn't use PEDs. But I think we all need to come to terms with why we believe what we believe, and that the reasons we're giving ourselves, such as that no fighter at 139 can be a welterweight when he used to be a featherweight, or that JMM couldn't possibly have scored a knockout because he couldn't do so in the first three fights, are all bull-shit we've picked up so as not to be troubled with knowing that the only reason we believe JMM used PEDs is our guts, rumor and heresay.

 

Are you familiar with his new strength coach's background?

 

So Marquez Only BEGAN Weight Training when he Moved Up to '47 for the Pac Fight???...It's IMPLAUSIBLE to Think a Fighter of Marquez's Ilk Only BEGAN Weight Training for the 3rd & 4th Pac Fights...

Marquez had to have Done Weight Training Before, to Transition his 3rd World Body Into what it Became @ 126-135, Brother Hut...



REED:mut:

 

Overeem is the closest comparison I can think of to JMM's body transformation.

 

No, it's Rashad Evans with the fish face after he got KO'd by Lyoto Machida.

 

I agree. I'm just showing an example of a fighter having a couple of tough bouts with a guy and then knocking him cold in the third bout. Walcott was a marvel for that time. A fighter at his age and in his shape was uncommon. That's why he was the oldest to win the title until Big George did it. Walcott was a stud.

 

Marquez is on PED's.............Pacquiao was/is on PEDS.

Please don't cry Marquez is on PED's because of his transformation while completely ignoring Pac's beastly climb up the weight classes just a few short years ago.

It's also obvious Marquez has taken training a lot more serious then Pac the last few years. When the skill level is this high it doesn't take a whole lot to shift the balance from one fighter to another. It's not like Marquez never hurt Pac before. Pac has way too many distractions.

 

no question...

 

Hell Yes, Roy Jones was ON Something for the Ruiz Fight & More than Likely Many Others...Roy's Physique was UNNATURAL (While MAINTAINING the Bulk of his SPEED), but More Importantly, when he Elected to Move BACK DOWN in Weight, Roy's Decline was DRAMATIC...

Roy Went from "# 1 Lb for Lb" to Getting BOUNCED Off the Canvas by Journeymen...


REEDopcorn:

 

I don't think it's implausible at all. 95% of top level fighters, at least below heavyweight, don't seriously weight train.

 

exactly... he's a classic case

the only thing I can be certain of is that Ivan Calderon never used them::

 

I said this in aother thread but I will post it here as well. So Manny gets on the juice when he moves up in weight, probably after say the David Diaz fight or so, he runs through all these bigger guys everyone screams cheater. He fights JMM in the third fight and low and behold, he looks the same as the first two. Why is JMM somehow immune to the PED's of Manny?

 

because he is on them as well

 

For all the fights?

 

for the last two fights... Am I missing something here?

 

For a reason. Makes them slower, more musclebound, adds unwanted weight.

Most lighter weight guys would look like Mosley at 154 after weight training.

Marquez in the space of 2 fights looks like a big, natural 140 pounder, still explosive and relatively fast, all at age 39, and with an infamous PED expert in his corner :: ::

 

Completely depends on what kind of weight training they do. Nobody becomes 'slow and muscle bound' taking their power clean and snatch up. If all they do is bench presses and leg presses there's a very real possibility of it. As for the weight gain, thats completely down to programming.

Boxing's in the training dark ages in this department and it's only just catching up. Basketball & sprint coaches used to say it'd make their guys slow and muscle bound too, but they wised up about 35-40 years ago and never looked back.

 

Hut, it doesn't even raise your eyebrow a bit that this sudden transformation has occurred with the hiring of a known BALCO associate?

 

They're raised at every top fighter in the game, but not because a guy started weight training and gained 4, 5 lb of muscle in a year. Athletes in other sports are laughing at that.

 

Now this is getting absurd. Overeem gained 60lb. Marquez gained 5.

 

you suggesting marquez may slaughter his family?

 

:laughing: classic

 

YOU'RE ABSURD!!!!

 

God, thankyou. This is some real knowledge here. Juan Manuel is a hard ass worker, what says that he just didn't workout different and eat different, I know many people not on PED's that look and are stronger than JMM at 147 that just did it with hard work, and arent boxers... Everyone is too quick to just say they are users. Baeball someone hits homeruns they are on steroids, someone in boxing gains muscle they are on steroids...give me a break.

 

Gene Fullmer went 15 rounds with Sugar Ray three times.

The other he was nearly knocked dead by Sugar Ray in the 5th with a picture perfect shot.

 

Juan Manuel Marquez: 39 year old mexican featherweight that suddenly became a ripped, monster puncher at Welter after hiring an admitted ex-steroid dealer who instructed him the art of "eating differently".

I like it.

Last Saturday was definitively the best fight between two guys that eat differently that I've seen by far.

 

perhaps you can enhance your posting abilities here if you change your name to V8

 

That's a possibility, putito.