Dana White HATES Randy Couture and will continue to hate him as long as he's alive

No Doubt...

CERTIFIED MMA Legends like Ken Shamrock & Dan Severn Got MORE PUB in WWE than they EVER Did (to that Point) in MMA...Those 2 Brought the Gloved, MMA "LOOK" to "Pro Wrasslin" which CLEARLY Influenced the Spawning of Goldberg, Brock Lesnar & Other Highly Successful "Wrasslin" Characters....Lesnar was "Wrasslin's" Way of GIVING BACK to MMA, & to DENY Brock Lesnar's IMPACT on UFC is Undeniable...

You NAILED it...UFC has CLEARLY Piggybacked WWE...It's like MichalSHITski vs. Roy Jones, All over Again....Dana White is EASILY Analagous w/Vince McMahaon....White's a CARICATURE that's Slowly, but SURELY Alienating the Very People (the FIGHTERS) who BIRTHED his Ass in the 1st Place....

It's SAD that REED has to Say this, but it's EASIER to Replace "Astute Executives" than it Is to Replace "Elite Fighters"...That's REED's Interpretation of What this Thread has Morphed Into, All Bullshit AND Smacktalk Aside....





REED:kidcool:

 

That's easy to say, but there have been so many MMA organizations that have failed even after the UFC did all of the hard work and made the sport of MMA mainstream. Groups like EliteXC, Affliction, IFL, etc, couldn't succeed even though MMA had already evolved. Am I to believe that some other group was gonna not only be successful, but bring the sport back from the dead, when they haven't been able to succeed even though the road to success has already been paved?

TFK

 

All the Petruzelli fight did was speed up the inevitable. When you look at why EliteXC failed, it wasn't because Ken Shamrock got cut, it was because they put the company on Kimbo's shoulders. Even if the Shamrock fight went on as planned, EliteXC would've failed once Kimbo was forced to face an even semi-live opponent.

Hell, who's to say Kimbo would've even beaten Shamrock?

TFK

 

Pride had next to zero impact on MMA in America.

TFK

 

I don't think Kimbo would have beaten Ken at that time either. His ground game was too good for Kimbo.

 

PRE-Dana White UFC "Happened BEFORE Pride", Did it NOT???...But POST-Dana White UFC Happened AFTER Pride was In Existence, Right???....

REED:dunno:

 

A UFC that Dana White Had NATHAN to Do w/Right???...These Men were MMA STARS w/Out Dana White, Correct???...



REED:dunno:

 

They were MMA fighters. I wouldn't call them stars by any means. Nobody knew who they were outside of the very small group of people who were MMA fans at the time.


TFK

 

EACH 1, REACH 1...

PRE-Dana White, PRE-Zuffa UFC Birthed Contemporary MMA as we Know It...Stars were Established There, just as they Were in Pride...Stars were Established in Elite XC as Well...FOX was the 1st "Regular" American Television Network to Broadcast an MMA Event; an Elite XC Event; a NON Dana White Event, that Is...

w/Out Question, Dana White Helped to EVOLVE the Sport, but to Pretend the Sport Wasn't ALREADY EVOLVING or Would've CEASED to EVOLVE (w/Out Dana White) is RIDICULOUS...

If Anthony & TFK REALLY Believe MMA WOULDN'T have Evolved w/Out the Presence of Dana White, there's Really NATHAN Else to Discuss @ this Point...REED Thinks MMA is ABOVE & BEYOND the Presence of ANY Particular Individual....




REEDathetic:

 

When REED Says "Regular", "Non Subscription", American Television, he's Talking about ABC, CBS, NBC & FOX...That Should Be OBVIOUS, Dude....

If Strikeforce was ALREADY on NBC & Elite XC was ALREADY on CBS, then Dana White DIDN'T Break Any Unchartered Ground... & According to Azazeal, White Also DIDN'T Co-Sign on TUF, which he HIMSELF CREDITS for Breaking MMA into the Mainstream, PARTICULARLY the 1st Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar Fight....Coupled w/Early Doors UFC & Pride....

These are All MAJOR MMA Contributions that DON'T Have Dana White's Fingerprints ANYWHERE on Them...

Was UFC ALREADY a PPV Sport or Not, PRIOR to Dana White???....Have MMA Companies had their Product Showcased on "Regular", American Television w/Out Dana White???....Did MMA ALREADY have MULTIPLE Certified STARS, in the PRE-Dana White Era???...


REED:notallthere:

 

It's amazing how one person can be so uninformed on a subject he won't stop talking about.

TFK

 

I'm not getting into the worth or lack of worth of Dana White. But I think people are really under estimating the impact of Pride on the popularity of today's MMA and the success of the UFC.

Guys like Big Nog, Cro Cop, Shogun, etc were wildly popular and not just in Japan. These were names known by all MMA fans long before they came to the UFC and before the UFC started turning things around.

This debate is kind of funny because I think all of you actually stand on the middle ground. Reed isn't saying Dana White had nothing to do with the UFC and MMA's growth. And I don't think Anthony or TFK are claiming that Dana was the ONLY thing responsible.

It's really a perfect storm of emerging, popular talent, great marketing, amazing fights, a lull in boxing, and the fact that it's a very TV-friendly sport. I have no idea where the sport would be if Dana wasn't involved, but something tells me it would still have grown in popularity but probably at a slower rate.

 

You can speculate whether somebody else could've done what White's done or not, but the bottom line is, White's the one who's done it. Nobody before White even came close to what's happened to the UFC since the Zuffa purchase. And no other MMA group has come close since.

TFK

 

And you can speculate that no one else could have done what Dana did if they were in the same position. But Dana is the only one that was in that position. No one has been in that same position before or since.

The UFC was a known entity when the Fertitta's purchased it. It wasn't like Dana took the reigns of some new, unknown promotion. Hell, the Fertitta's basically paid $2 million JUST for the UFC brand name.

Comparing Dana's situation to ANYONE else that has failed in MMA is ridiculous. He took over a brand that fans already knew and with owners that had the deep pockets to afford to lose $34 million over the first few years before turning it around.

Simply put, you have absolutely zero idea if another person could have done the same thing or better if put in the same position as Dana. That is pure speculation as well.

 

The original Gracie\Davie version of the UFC didn't have the success of Zuffa's UFC. The SEG version of the UFC didn't have nearly the success of Zuffa's UFC. They both had the opportunity.

TFK

 

Really? What is name of the other US-based MMA organization with the UFC's level of name recognition that had deep enough pockets to withstand losing $34 million the first 5 or 6 years of a new President taking over?

See, that's the point. No one has been in Dana's exact situation. So comparisons are absolutely ridiculous. Who are you going to compare him to? Scott Coker? No entirely different. Bjorn Rebney? No, completley different circumstances. Nobuyuki Sakakibara? LOL, right.....

You can't even compare it to a promotion like Affliction or EliteXC since the UFC was already huge at the time and steamrolling the competition. Dana and the UFC didn't have that problem.

So again, it's a simple question. Who else failed when put in a position like Dana was? I'll give you an assist and tell you the answe is "NO ONE". Dana and the Fertitta's bought into a unique situation and the stars aligned. You can credit Dana or you can credit Dana, fighters, the Fertittas, the sport, fate, etc. I choose to spread the credit.

 

That's hilarious. Dana's vision?? It's easy to have a vision when you're not risking anything. The Fertittas had the vision that mattered. They're the ones that spent $2 million to basically buy a brand name.

Personally I give more credit to the vision backed by 2 mil than the vision backed by a suggestion to rich friends. Just saying.

 

Really? Where did Reed say that. I read him say that others, including Silva, were also responsible for the UFC's success, but I can't find a single post by Reed that claim Silva was MORE RESPONSIBLE.

Surely I missed a post somewhere, because I know you and TFK wouldn't misquote Reed and then call him out for it. Right? Come on man.