How would you rank these guys at their best in terms of talent? Greg Page Michael Spinks Tony Tucker Tim Witherspoon Buster Douglas Michael Dokes Tony Tubbs Pinklon Thomas Also, how do you think they (leaving aside Witherspoon) would have fared against Holmes if they'd gotten their shot near their peaks in the 80s? Lastly, is it a coincidence none of them did or was Holmes cherry picking?
Interesting Thread, Brother Hut... REED Would Rank 'em as Such... Dokes Page Thomas Douglas Witherspoon Tucker Tubbs *REED Purposely EXCLUDED Spinks as he's Not a Natural Heavyweight & WOULDN'T have Fared Very Well Overall, Head to Head Against those Guys... REED would Fault Don King MORE than Larry Holmes, for These Fights NOT Taking Place...King was MORE Interested in MILKING Multiple Champions in as Many Weight Classes as he Could...@ their Best, REED Would Give Dokes, Page & Thomas 50-50 Chances of BEATING Holmes Though... REEDopcorn:
1) Greg Page -- huge underachiever... had the whole package... size, strength, good skills, toughness... was a lazy bastard who seldom showed up anywhere near 100% 2) Michael Dokes -- Like Page, massive underachiever... Loved booze and cocaine... had tremendously quick hands, good power, good legs... just could not live the elite boxer's life 3) Tim Witherspoon -- Arguably got more done than either of the above two guys... But, again, he should have been MORE... Some nights, he looked brilliant... others, he looked terrible... He had very good skills, outstanding scalpel of a right hand... that overhand right was a difficult punch to get away from, difficult to time... he set it up well 4) Pinklon Thomas -- Another drug addict... Had one of the best jabs of the decade, beautiful jab... Also had a good chin, respectable pop and on his best nights looked elite... but those nights were few and far between 5) Tony Tucker -- Probably the most consistent guy of the whole bunch... Very good chin, good power, good skillset and good size, length and strength... He didn't have, to me, any "special" qualities, though, the way the guys before him in my ranking did... that is why he is here 6) Tony Tubbs -- Hands down the most technically skilled boxer on this list, a real cutie... classic old-school defensive boxer... He wasn't blessed with any obvious physical attributes (at least not to the extent of these other guys) but he knew the book cover to cover... His problem? No physical discipline... Huge fluctuations in weight checkered his career... A later career performance against an up and coming Riddick Bowe is a must see for anyone wanting to observe his tremendous technical ability 7) Buster Douglas -- He had talent... He was of good size, he had pop, he had a good jab and was pretty well schooled... I think his "potential" tends to get overstated a little bit in hindsight because of the one magical night against Tyson when he fought the fight of his life. Tyson was certainly not in the same state of mind or body that he had been when he was blasting the hell out of 3 of the guys on this list (while comprehensively decisioning a fourth - Tucker- , who in fairness did break his hand in the 3rd after a promising start) some time earlier. That played a role in Tokyo almost as much as Douglas fighting at his absolute best 8) Michael Spinks -- P4P, clearly the greatest fighter on this list by light years... BUT, we are rating him as a heavyweight and he has got to be last if all of these guys are at their very best. Yes, he beat Holmes once and got what I think is an undeserved decision in the rematch, but he just beat him and Holmes was majorly faded by that point... Far slower of hand and foot than he had once been, less snap on his right hand... He was ready to be taken and Spinks still had to fight a near perfect (and largely negative) fight to win a close decision... Cooney was a drug-addicted punching bag by the time he fought him, Tangstad was a non-entity and Tyson pancaked him As for how they would do against Holmes? Well, by the time Witherspoon got Holmes, he was fading and some thought Witherspoon deserved the decision (it was very close)... At that point in time (83-85), properly focused/trained versions of Page and Dokes could have gotten a similar or perhaps slightly better result... But if we consider Larry at his late 70s best, every guy on this list would be hard pressed to beat him... They'd all give him a tough time (especially Thomas with his jab, Dokes with his speed, Tubbs with his defense, Page with his power) but I don't know that I'd be laying money down on any of them to win it... Of them at their very best, I still think Witherspoon poses the most difficulty for Holmes with the big, powerful Page a close second
Well, drew with Thomas, beat Dokes, lost to Page, Tate and barely to Snipes... should be in there for consideration.
Get rid of the Klitschkos and these guys are all twins of what's existed in the division the past 10 years. Not one of them would have been any more likely to be a champ than the guys we have had.
There's a couple of exceptions, barring the episodic pudginess of Witherspoon and Dokes, most guys kept themselves in shape back then. Even the bummish amongst the South Africans were in good shape. Okay Big John Tate died of Obesia but that was the exception to the rule. I always liked Tucker, myself.
Witherspoon beat Larry Holmes but didn't get the decision, and so did Ken Norton and Carl Williams. I thought Holmes was a great fighter and I admired his skill and championship heart, but I lost a tremendous amount of respect for him the first time a decision didn't go his way versus Spinks and the way in which he handled himself when he had received several gift wins in the past by the judges. None of the other guys you listed would have been able to beat Larry and he knew it as they all served as his sparring partners and lackeys in camp at one time or another.
Yeah, wald pussy doesn't see the fourth round against most of these guys. This is probably the only era where 2005 wald pussy doesn't get pushed off the cliff permanently.
Depends on what versions of those fighters show up. If you wanted to explain to somebody the meaning of laziness and inconsistency you could use this 80's list of heavyweight as a scientific model. Some of them would win by KO, and others would end up like Brewster.
For sure. But all those guys in top form spark wald pussy. Of that there's no doubt. wald pussy doesn't exist back then. He'd get sparked, lose his confidence and he wouldn't get to fight guys like Sam Peter and Calvin Brock to get it back.
And Tubbs. So that's 3/8. And we know what happened to Douglas when he should have been in the best shape of his life. I don't discount these guys. I think they are very good, but I don't think they are any better than guys like Gomez, Povetkin, Chambers, Rahman, Thompson, Solis, etc. None of the 80's guys listed took over for a reason, they weren't that good. Spinks is perhaps the exception, but it's not my fault he didn't try harder at heavyweight.
Yup... Tucker is the only consistent performer on the list... The rest of these guys were terrific one night and fat bums the next night
Just gave Page/Coetzee another look Page doing a lot of Jersey Joe Walcott stuff in that fight... He should have been a great pro
There's NOfuckingWAY of Proving it, but REED Thinks the Guys Listed in the Opening Post would WIN 65-70% of the Matchups (MINIMUM), if there was a Mythical, Magical, Computer Round Robin Consisting of the Guys YOU'VE just Noted...If EVERY Guy Fought Each Other, the 80's List has a DECIDED Edge, Which Leads REED to your Next Paragraph... Those 80's Guys WERE Good...They were just SANDWICHED by Holmes & Tyson...MORESO, the 80's WEREN'T Quite LITTERED w/Enough Sanctioning Bodies to Get YOU Moist btwn the Legs, as Today's Era Is...During the BULK of Holmes Reign, there was WBC & WBA Exclusively... The IBF was Created Towards the END of the 80's & Holmes Granted them LEGITIMACY by Accepting 1 of their Belts, Because he was PISSY @ Don King... 80's Heavy's > Today's Heavy's REED:hut:
disagree completely but I might not if I were using whatever criteria you are using (which is likely counter-intuitive to me)
Even at their best, all of these guys would be hard-pressed to get past Vitali With the exception of Tubbs (light hitting defensive specialist) and Spinks (blown up Lt. Heavy), I'd give all of these guys on a good night a great chance at stopping wald pussy
