Who ranks higher, Mayweather or Leonard?

agREED on NOT Wanting to RE-Open that Can of Worms, but Put it This Way...

THE BIGGEST Fight of Floyd Mayweather's Career is Undoubtedly the 1 he DIDN'T Take...You Simply CANNOT Say Likewise for Ray Leonard...If Pacquiao was a CLEAR & PRESENT Threat to Leonard, he'd have FOUGHT him Eventually...Simple as That...

For as Much of an Opportunistic BITCH he was, Ray Leonard Would've NEVER Uttered the Words "Legacy DON'T Pay Bills", Either...Floyd Not Only SAID the Shit, he Put the Quote Into PRACTICE...

Leonard > Floyd...



REED:hammert:

 

Did DOUBLE L Hack your Account???...



REED:red:

 

Hearns was weak-willed... an easy mark who only beat former lightweights:hammert:

 

Basically, What You're Asking is, Would Leonard Be MORE Appreciated if Not for Retina Surgery & the 3 Year Layoff???...

If So, Yes...



REED:hammert:

 

Are you disputing that Duran was ever as dominant above 135 as he was at 135?

I'll be waiting for your answer, because that would actually address my claim that he wasn't.

Again, it's a sign of desperation when you make up shit that I haven't said. I never claimed Duran was "nothing" as a welterweight. I said he was hit or miss once he moved beyond 135 and I said he was NEVER as dominant as he was at LW.

And I never said Hearns was an "easily-defeated" fighter. So your pattern of making shit up continues.

But it's to be expected from a guy that said McCallum scored a desperation knockout of Curry only to backtrack and divert quickly once it was disputed by, well, anyone with eyes basically.p

Regarding McCallum and mega fights, I think almost any boxing fan familiar with the 80's will agree that McCallum deserved some shot at various times against the Fab 4 but was avoided or fucked out of those opportunities. It should have been McCallum fighting Duran when Hearns did if not for getting fucked over by Steward.

Im sure you'll disagree and that will really say all that needs to be said.

 

REED's Never Scored it, but Curry Seemed to Be Pretty FIRMLY In Control...Not Irreversibly, Obviously, but the Onus was CLEARLY on McCallum to Do Something DIFFERENT...Plan-A WASN'T Working Soooo Well for Him...

Curry was WINNING the Fight, No Doubt...3-1 @ Worst...



REED:hammert:

 

The timing just sucked for me and my opinion of Leonard. But I guess it was just unfortunate.

 

So would you categorize it as a desperation knockout for McCallum? Or would you say McCallum was getting his ass kicked by Curry at the point of the knockout?

I'm not being sarcastic. I have just honestly never heard anyone describe the fight like that until today.

 

Hit or Miss @ 154, Definitely...Not Soooo Much at Welter...

Any Ol' Lightweight WOULDN'T Move Up & BEAT Carlos Palomino & Ray Leonard @ 147, Bro...If REED Isn't Mistaken, Duran's ONLY Loss @ Welter was to Leonard...



REED:hammert:

 

I don't think it was all about that. Leonard did have a vacation because of the retina problem, but it didn't force him to quit completely (as we saw numerous times too), he did it for other reasons.

Also, it is questionable if it matters anyway: Salvador Sanchez could have had a greater career than either, but he isn't usually ranked above them. Floyd spend more time at the top and fought more contenders compared to Leonard, which IMHO evens the scale some, while Leonard has a huge edge in level of opposition. That's why I see this comparison relatively close, even though I must admit that everybody else seems to agree with you ::

 

Agree. But regardless, his brief span at 147, as good as it was, pales when compared against his time at 135. Again, regardless of the circumstance, the "no mas" debacle taints him and especially in his welterweight stay.

 

2% battery left on the IPad and nowhere to plug.

Screw you guys. I'm going home.

 

REED Would Say McCallum was ON THE VERGE of Being SCHOOLED, when he KO'ed Curry...

It was Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay Tooooo EARLY for the Fight to Be a "Desperation KO" & it's NOT as if McCallum was Being Beaten Pillar to Post Either..."However", Curry DID Seem to B a Class or So BETTER, Up to the Point McCallum Stopped him...

Watching the Fight, You KNEW McCallum had to Do Something Sooon, to PREVENT the Fight from Getting AWAY from Him & to his Credit, he DID...



REED:hammert:

 

McCallum being ducked is a bunch of cry-baby bullshit... Duran "ducked" him because he wanted the money, and the money was Hearns, not McCallum

McCallum had a chance to make himself a player when he went up to Middleweight and he LOST, fair and square to Sumbu Kalambay, a guy he was favored to beat...

Who else "ducked" McCallum? Hagler? the retired Leonard? The guy's rep is made off of these accusations, yet it always gets glossed over how much the loss to Kalambay hurt his chances at the big time, like it never happened...

As for your Duran bullshit, just stop already... You were calling him a "Lightweight" in order to diminish Leonard, don't act like you just threw it out there like a description, like calling him "Panamanian" ... It's a disingenuous qualifier

Duran was an exceptionally formidable welterweight, he proved it by shutting out Palomino and he proved it by getting the better of Leonard... There isn't a welterweight in history with the possible exception of Hearns who would have had an easy time with the Duran that Leonard fought, anybody claiming otherwise is full of shit

As for the Hearns business, did you or did you not try to diminish that victory by Leonard by blaming the loss on Hearns' legs and will, as if Leonard just happen to be there?

 

THIS^

And I made it clear about 90 posts ago that "Desperation" was a bit of a wind-up on my part

 

But that's just It,

Floyd's Spent More Time @ the Top BECAUSE he's Cherry Picked, STRETCHED OUT his Reign w/a Retirement or 2, & Fought Just 7 Times (Counting Canelo) in the Last 6 YEARS....

LENGTH of Time On Top SHOULDN'T Be Weighed Heavier than WHO Fought (& Beat) Who...



REED:dunno:

 

Nice Debate, Bro...



REED:Thumbs:

 

Time alone does not, the main point was that during that time Floyd has beaten MORE top-10 contenders than Leonard did and in more weight classes

 

Of course, Leonard's top ten were better boxers than Floyd's

 

Floyd was at his peak from 130-140, nobody is claiming he is the GOAT welterweight. The thread topic is comparing Mayweather & Leonard as fighters, not as welterweights, so your point is a strawman

 

The biggest fight of Leonard's career was one he didn't take until after he'd been retired for years and his prospective opponent showed slippage. It was a different time & climate back then, or he would've avoided Hearns too.. he certainly avoided the rematch in that instance

 

word. This is pretty much the point I have tried to make all along, that this is a quantity vs quality debate.

 

Here's the Problem...

Floyd has FEWER Guys on the FRONT End (the More IMPORTANT Part) of his Resume, yet MORE Fights...

Roy Jones Wiped his Ass w/COUNTLESS Top 10 Ring Magazine Guys, While Being CRITICIZED by the Ring Themselves....

REED WOULDN'T Rate Roy Over Ray Leonard Either, All Time, Though REED Likes Roy Over Leonard, Head to Head...



REED:hammert:

 

That SOUNDS Good (To Some), but the TRUTH is, Hagler was 2 Fights Removed from his CAREER DEFINING WIN Over Hearns, when he Faced Leonard...Mugabi was a MURDEROUS Puncher who Gave Hagler a TOUGHER than Expected Outing, but Hagler was STILL Almost Universally Regarded as THE Best Figher in the World, Lb for Lb, Thereafter...Then he Fought Leonard...

REED Isn't Sure of your Age, but PERSPECTIVE is Everything, in the Case of Leonard-Hagler...Leonard-Hagler had an Ali-Foreman/Tyson-Holyfield I Pre-Fight VIBE to It...Leonard had NEVER Fought @ 160, was Coming Off Eye Surgery & Looked SUAR @ Best, Getting DROPPED in his Ill Fated Comeback Attempt, Years Prior...People Thought Hagler would Permanently BLIND Leonard, or WORSE...No Bullshit...

Hagler LOSING to Leonard Wasn't Something ANYBODY Saw Coming...Hell, it Took Hagler LOSING to Leonard for Mike Tyson to BECOME the Most Intimidating Fighter in the World...

Bottom Line, Leonard MADE the BIGGEST Fights Available to Him & Floyd DIDN'T...




REED:hammert:

 

I was rating them FLoyd at 130 vs. Leonard at 147... p4p, no "only welterweight" shit... there is no strawman

Leonard's comp is clearly better, prime for prime... there's no objective argument to the contrary

 

Agree, and while Floyd has taken it to the extreme, he learned it from his sort of contemporary/sort of mentor. This is also why:

SRL > RJJ > Floyd

 

I jumped the gun on you.

Although I rate SRL as best p4p all time, I also think Roy matches up well with him and would lean Roy in a 160 lb head to head matchup.

 

I like Roy at 160 as well

 

Not exactly a secret...

 

This is what happens when McCallum fans try to make a case for him being more than he actually was. Lots of talk about number of defenses and number of wins at 154, but pretty much none about the so-so quality of opposition. And the loss to Kalambay is conveniently not discussed because it shoots holes in the effort to portray McCallum as some sort of an 80's version of Charley Burley.