Who ranks higher, Mayweather or Leonard?

This. Quality of opposition trumps number of defenses or number of years spent as champ of a division.

 

Yeah, longevity or a long reign is an excellent qualifier for a great fighter... It is what helps a guy like Bernard Hopkins in the face of an underwhelming resume... It helps Antonio Cervantes that he had two lengthy reigns as a champion at 140... Joe Louis is buttressed by his longevity, for sure... But quality of opposition is always going to be a little bit more important... Leonard has the legacy he does because of WHO he fought... If you make his time at welterweight nothing but guys like Davey Green, Pete Ranzany, Floyd Mayweather Sr., etc... You still have a guy with alarmingly conclusive results over basically decent comp, but nothing special... If he retires at the same time, you've got a guy with a "what might have been?" argument for greatness... Instead, those quality performances are a nice foundation for all of the amazing stuff (Benitez/Duran/Hearns and Hagler (whether you thought he won or not, the fact that it was even debatable makes it a noteworthy achievement))

 

Castillo would have KO'd Hearns so therefore Mayweather wins the debate

 

::

 

Leonard and it's not close....

I see Floyd resume a lot of good B fighters...maybe one or two A fighter...but I see NOBODY who would give Leonard difficulties in a fight...NOBODY...


While Hagler/Hearns/Benitez/Duran would give MONEY nightmares for days....and take away his precious 0

 

:: :: ::

 

@"best p4p of all time"

@"lean Roy"

Roy would wipe his ass with SRL at 160

 

Oh I see

 

agreed, I thought Curry was winning easily. WIll have to watch it agains to be sure though but that's how I remember it.

 

rewatching it, it wasn't how I remembered it at all. Maybe it's because I'm dead tired though. I felt McCalum won the 1st round and was winning the 2nd clearly before getting caught with the right hand (wich didn't really hurt McCalum imo), I'm not sure it was even enough for Curry to win the round. But surprinsingly, Curry seemed to be doing better and better before getting koed, the start of the 5th round were his best moment imo (right up untill the left hook of course)

 

As for the question, Leonard is higher, not by a mile, but it's not close either. Somewhere in between. If Floyd beats Canelo (and if Canelo goes on to have a succesful career), it gets close, but right now, Mayweather simply avoided to many top fighters in his weight class. Margarito, Williams, Prime Cotto, Prime Mosley and of course Pac. He never fought Freitas or Cassamayor and they were considered a threat.

His best wins are also kind of tainted : ODLH was at the end (and the fight was closer than it should have been), Castillo was contreversial (the rematch less so but I've seen some scored it a draw), Corrales was weight drained and facing a terrible personnal situation. Don't get me wrong,though, Floyd is a great, great, great fighter, but he could have been more.

 

Nobody wipes his ass with anything approaching a prime leonard.

 

Jones at 160 was far too raw for Leonard imo. Unless he connects with a lucky bomb, he loses. Jones became a far better fighter at the higher weights. Early on, he was basically just speed and power.

 

So I'll add your name to the list of people who didn't think Curry was kicking McCallum's ass for 4 1/2 rounds. I'll also assume you didn't think it would be qualified as a desperation knockout by McCallum.

The conversation forced me to rewatchi the fight last night and tried to be objective. Curry was doing solid work. His jab was pinpoint and he was more effective infighting than I remembered. But he was also being systematically busted up. His right eye was closing fast. McCallum's body work was forcing Curry to carry his hands low. Curry taking a right to the body and pulling back with his arms low protecting his midsection is what allowed the left hook to turn his lights outs.

McCallum was miles from getting his ass kicked and for a fight scheduled for 15 rounds, there was nothing remotely desperate about McCallum's KO. It was shocking. It was sudden. But it was just McCallum's normal attack and nothing desperate.

I had also forgotten that Curry was a 2-1 favorite going into the fight. That was a little amazing to remember. Hell, McCallum had been champ for 3 years and knocked out 9 opponents during that span. Meanwhile Curry really hadn't look the same since the loss to Honeyghan.

 

Agree... I don't see anybody easily defeating him from 147-160... most lose

 

Still harping on that word and avoiding comment on everything else pointed out to you, I see

 

come on

 

That's Trpl's thing.

 

Actually that word and your claim that McCallum was getting his ass kicked or handed to him (can't remember which) was my only point of debate in this entire thread.

And I'm not sure what else you've pointed out. You tried unsuccessfully to change what I said or even make shit up, but that's about it.

Speaking of avoidance, did you ever answer my question about whether Duran was ever as dominant above 135 as he was at 135? I waited but never saw your response. ::

 

Well, there's that and making fun of curling.

 

The more this topic is discussed, the more I realize you need to re-watch the fight.

McCallum wasn't knocked down. He didn't have to hold on or clinch. And he didn't run. In fact, McCallum landed the very next punch.

No one can say for sure if McCallum was hurt or not, but claiming he wasn't REALLY hurt is far less ridiculous than saying Curry was kicking McCallum's ass.

 

Yeah, I know

 

"It's the closest I ever came to hitting the canvas" - McCallum's own words after that fight

Dude was clearly rocked by that shot

What does a guy have to do for you to consider him "hurt"?

Unless, of course, the guy is Mike McCallum, in which case you put the blinders on

 

^
You would think this guy's posts in this thread weren't immediately seen as ridiculous, judging by the tone of this inquiry

 

Comprehension is a REAL issue for you. I never said he wasn't hurt. I said claiming he wasn't hurt is far less ridiculous than your claim that McCallum was getting his ass kicked.

Yes, in fact I'm fairly certain I said "no one can say for sure if McCallum was hurt or not". Can you read that part?

I have no idea if he was hurt. He was buckled for sure but immediately started throwing punches. Maybe he did an amazing job of recovering or maybe he bluffed his way out of it. Again, I have no idea, but the claim by Azazel isn't even close to being the most misguided claim about the fight in this thread. That honor is yours alone.

Hell, maybe he'll come back in here and recant his statement like you.

 

I don't recall being ridiculed into recanting any statements in this thread like someone.

And still no answering on Duran. ::

 

Let me get this straight

The fighter himself confirms that he was hurt (the fact that we are arguing this in the first place is PREPOSTEROUS, the guy was obviously hurt by the shot... The crowd knew it, the commentators knew it, everyone watching knew it). You say "no one can say for sure if McCallum was hurt or not".

I mock you for the "no one can say for sure..." comment and you accuse of me of poor reading comprehension? Are you serious with this crap?

I comprehended you perfectly...

 

160 Leonard wasn't prime & Roy would be coming into the ring in the 170s. Roy was too big and too fast for SRL, he'd turn his lights out. I would give anything to see this fight.

 

You're too dense to possibly recant anything in the first place

This is well established through the years

First response to you was "Is this a serious post?"

 

This hasn't been recanted?