Gerald McClellan is "a fucking bum" - Kelly Pavlik

It's not. During the Benn fight, he told his corner that he could hear "water rushing in my head". During some other insignificant 1 round KO win, way back when, he had blinking issues in a fight where he was barely grazed by one shot.

Benn was a hard puncher but he needed 11 rounds to take out the totally inept, chinless Nicky Piper {a guy that DM took out in 7 rounds} and he was, by his own admission, a small 168lbr. Yet despite being nearly KO'd in the first, he landed a punch that totally took McClellans legs away. The nature of the loss...basically battered down, as opposed to KO'd, confirms what I suspect to be the case...he had a decent chin, sure, but had some sort of flaw, some sort of weak spot, inside his head. Maybe neurological, maybe cranial, I don't know.

How do you separate "chin" issues from "neurological" issues. All one and the same in my opinion. After all, we have heard of chins being "broken".

Its possible myself and X are both right. He had a good chin up to a point. After that point, he was a damaged, flawed, vulnerable fighter.

 

Gerald fought a grand total of 84 rounds in his career. Most against sub-par competition. It's very likely that his punch resistance was for shit, or that Julian Jackson ruined him with a couple good tags. I don't know, but Irish may be right. He may have had something wrong with him from the get go.

I'm not convinced that even old man Hopkins (2008 version, not present day LOL) doesn't take him into deep water and get rid of him late. He's certainly not going to blast Hopkins out of there, that's just silly.

 

He may have eventually come undone due to some neurological issue, but the fact is that Julian Jackson was unable to really hurt him despite those big tags... he couldn't shake the guy, never came close to putting him down

If Julian Jackson can't stagger you with a couple of good shots... You have a good chin

Whether or not you have a bad BRAIN that may morph into a bad chin someday is another matter entirely

 

Bad brain, bad chin, it's all the same thing really. I think he had a thin skull like Johnny Owen and was probably damaged by the time he fought Benn. It's not like Michael Watson. Watson had a really good chin, he just got badly hurt and didn't receive proper medical attention. The medical attention that McClellan got immediately was a direct result of the fall out from Watson vs Eubank.

 

You Simply CANNOT Go the Neurological Route, when Assessing CHINS/PUNCH RESISTANCE...

Did George Foreman have a BETTER Chin than Muhammad Ali, Since his Post-Fighting Days AREN'T Nearly as COMPROMISED as Ali's???...Foreman DOESN'T Slur, Doesn't Shake & is Still Able to Wipe his OWN Ass...Does that AUTOMATICALLY Mean his Chin is/was BETTER than Ali's???...

James Toney's Been SLURRING for Several Years Now...Does that Bring his PUNCH RESISTANCE Into Question, Even Though he's NEVER Been KO'ed & Only been Dropped a SMALL Handful of Times???...Deuk Koo Kim had a TOTAL of 1 KO Loss in his Career...Did his Chin SUCK???...Is his Chin Automatically WORSE than Gerald McClellan's, Since he Actually DIED After his KO Loss???...

Gerald McClellan had a VERY GOOD Chin, Which Might've Proven to Be GREAT, Eventually...Even in the Benn Fight, it LOOKED like McClellan had Simply QUIT, Initially...His Chin DIDN'T Fail him that Night...He was Counted Out on 1 Knee...It Wasn't Until he WALKED Back to his Corner, that he Collapsed & Fell into a Coma...

CHIN/PUNCH RESISTANCE is 1 of the More OBVIOUS Metrics Out There...No Need to COMPLICATE it...



REED:mj:

 

Ali's has neurological issues because his chin was so great over 20 years at heavyweight. McClellan, as Noble has pointed out, fought 84 rounds, which is little more than twice what Ali fought with Ken Norton alone.

 

Neurology ISN'T a TANGIBLE Prizefighting Metric, Irish...Even if it was, it'd Probably Be THE LEAST Definable Metric there Could EVER Be...Unless You're Ready to Open Up TLC's/Silent Night's LUDICROUS Idea of "Cranial Density" Playing a Role...


REED:notallthere:

 

The chin and the brain are like the dancer and the dance, how do we separate them? The chin, like the dance, cannot exist without the idea of the brain, or the body of the dancer.

Can we really say a guy has a good chin if the punch doesn't KO him there and then, but causes him to collapse a few days later???

 

Yes.

Because "Chin" describes the ability of a fighter to take a punch and not appear compromised by it, during a fight

 

Agreed. If we're going by brain damage, than I suppose there are a ton of fighters with double digit KO losses because they couldn't absorb a shot but are perfectly healthy today.

 

That's fine...what it doesn't explain is how a chin is broken. Sam Peter, David Tua?? Peter absorbed bombs from Wlad but couldn't deal with McClines awesome power? Did he have a good chin? Yes. Did he have a crap chin? Yes. We often hear about how "so-and-so's punch resistance is diminished"...

 

exactly

 

you are using the same term to describe two different qualities

Sugar Ray Leonard had an excellent chin

Sugar Ray Leonard was stopped by Hector Camacho

The latter has nothing to do with his chin as a prime fighter, and everything to do with being old, inactive, and shot

Punch resistance is usually diminished by age and by activity... Even Jake LaMotta eventually hit the deck as an aging fighter against a much bigger man (Bob Murphy) ... It doesn't mean he actually had a bad chin or some pre-disposition to being hurt by punches... It means that if you keep chiseling a stone, you will eventually have pieces scattered around

As Whiskey pointed out, you could be knocked into Bolivian a dozen times and be a fully functional, normal person post-retirement or you could be an absolute rock and be Muhammad Ali... The guy knocked into Bolivian may have more long-term resilient neurological defenses, but that isn't a "Chin"

 

I'm not really sure, it's probably a combination of psychology and physical damage absorbed. Some guys get worn down because of the amount of wars they've been in and other are never the same after a one punch knockout.

If it was purely physical it could probably be determined if you had something like a thousand fighters that took MRI's (and other tests) while they appeared in great form and then compared to afterward when perceived "shotness" sets in. This is not to say medical science is advanced enough at this point where a doctor could look at some brain scan results and immediately say "oh that guy got KTFO". Although I would think there would be ways to determine such things medically, not all of the cases would be physical. I don't how to explain it but I guess in cases where a boxer has not suffered any long term problems but are no longer the same due to some kind of version of a fighter's PTSD.

 

Or you could be a guy who in one fight was shipping absolute bombs from Wlad and never even looking remotely bothered until the very last round, and then in your very very next fight, be one knockdown away from a stoppage against a relative powderpuff. For me, and I don't want to be contrary about it, separating the brain from the chin is no different to separating the mind from the brain, its one and the same. Ray was like......a decade removed from his best days versus Camacho.

 

I think ultimately until we learn a lot more about the brain we won't have the answer to the question. Theoretically, it seems, that a fighter, before a loss or debilitating win, can have a great great chin, sort of like Cinderella, for one night only, and then who knows.

 

it could just be that wald pussy sucks:dunno::stir:

 

I think its a simple question of chins being capable of being broken.

 

He started having signs of issues after the first Jackson fight. You're probably not aware of this, but Jackson is pfp one of the hardest punchers of all time.

 

^^^ this

 

Dog hating fag, but it's okay feeling is mutual. Dogs hate vegetables.

 

I've heard that before and it would make sense but is there anything more than speculation about it?

 

The guy fought less then 6 rounds against Jackson. I know he's one of the hardest lb. for lb. punchers of all-time, but if he was ruined in that time span against Jackson, it doesn't say much for the argument that he could have speculatively had a "great chin".

Besides Jackson, he barely went more then 2 rounds against anybody who was worth a shit, before he fought Benn.

 

Check out the book "War, Baby." According to the author (who met McClellan, Benn, and many people Gman was close to), Gman started complaining of headaches after the first Jackson fight.

 

Yes, I follow all the good white fighters.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?cli...rceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

 

I read that book 10 years ago. Its the same book where Kevin Mitchell references the blinking problems McClellan had after an inconsequential win early in his career.

 

What the people here are saying is that a guy can have a great chin if he sustains the damage but does not lose by KO in that fight.

I find it hard to accept that.

Take the following Categories.

1. Great Chin, But Serious Long Term Health Issues:

Ali, Quarry, Toney.

2. Great Chin, No Evident Long Term Issues:

Archie Moore, Jake La Motta, Chris Eubank, Marvin Hagler.

3. Great Chin, Its Gone After One War/Incident:

Fernando Vargas, Sam Peter, McClellan,

Now, throw in a sub category, guys freezing after a bad KO loss or stoppage, this could be the psychology issue that Whiskey was mentioning.

Cotto.......after the Margarito fight.
Hatton...after the Mayweather fight.


Etc.

 

There was never any evidence that Vargas had a great chin pre-Trinidad

ZILCH

Quartey was no banger at 154 and he buzzed Vargas bad... what serious puncher did Vargas face pre-Trinidad to earn this rep for having a great chin? Yory Boy "punch me in the face, please" Campas?

 

Also Archie Moore didn't have a great chin... He didn't have a bad one, but it was nothing special

 

I agree with Irish. I took a look at McClellan and he clearly has a thin face and a cranium density ill-fit to take clubbing power.