MARQUEZ vs. BRADLEY...

Pac and Holy are NOT greater/better than Hopkins.

 

You should stopped at power. Marquez is one of the best combination punchers that's ever lived. I'll give him that. Power, and combinations aside though, Hopkins has him beat in every other aspect.

 

You have to be kidding. You rate Hopkins higher than Pacquiao all time? Even loadedgloves might disagree with that.

 

Yes. Pac is one of the most overrated all time greats.

In a P4P sense, prime Hopkins would embarrass Pac and his limited ring IQ.

And Holy ain't even a top 5 all time HEAVYWEIGHT, nevermind top 10 all time great. Yes, he was awesome at Cruiser, but all time I'd rate a guy like Michael Spinks above Holy.

 

There is absolutely no way Hopkins could be ranked above Pacquiao. Hopkins doesn't have any win on his record as good as Holyfields over Bowe either.

 

Trinidad is a way better win

 

Olympic silver medallist, undefeated, huge physical advantages and a guy who's already beaten you vs a one-dimensional guy with a vicious left hook riding a wave of hype. Bowe is the better win.

 

LOL. Revisionist history at it's finest. At THE TIME IT HAPPENED, very few believed in Bowe. He was thought to lack substance, and he was the underdog coming in.

Trinidad was UNIVERSALLY regarded as top 3 P4P when Hopkins beat him. The universal top 3 P4P in Sept. 2001 was Jones, Tito, and Mosley.

Bowe wasn't held in anywhere NEAR the regard Tito was.

Oh AND, let's not forget......... Bowe beat the living shit outta Holy 2/3 times. Vander BARELY edged him in the rematch.

So what's your point exactly?

 

You must not have gotten the memo around here. Tito was a bum. Hopkins win over him is no better than Tszyu's win over Tackie.

 

It doesn't matter, Tito was overrated to fuck and was 2 weight divisions smaller than Nard. Bowe is a better win, and Holyfield ranks at least as high as Nard for me.

 

No he wouldn't. Like Jones was, Pacquiao would be too fast, powerful, and unpredictable for Hopkins.

If Slappy Joe could overwhelm and decision a still very competent Hopkins, you best believe Pacquiao would overwhelm a prime Hopkins.

Pacquiao is the better fighter with the better resumé, there is no doubt he should rank higher on an all time list.

 

Bowe never fought BEFORE or AFTER as well as he did in the first Holy fight. And at his true best, he fucked Holy up.

 

For ONE, Calz beat an old Hopkins. You and I both know for DAMN SURE that Calz would never beat a peak Hopkins.

For TWO, and it's blasphemy to say this: I'm not in anyway trying to say that Calz was in Manny's league as an overall talent, but I think Joe had a higher ring IQ than Manny and was better at adjusting.

Manny's one of the best natural talents in history in terms of combination of speed, power, and overall athleticism, however, he was never the brightest in the ring.

 

That Bowe was the better win, obviously.

I never thought Tito was all that. A big hitter sure, but he didn't beat Oscar, and beat two green champions in Reid and Vargas. Reid wasn't even very good. Bowe did indeed beat the shit out of Holyfield twice, and Tito was shown to be way overrated after the Hopkins fight. Doesn't change the fact Holyfield DID get a win over Bowe and it is better than the Tito victory.

 

I think you're underrating his ring IQ. He used to be just a speedy, powerful beast that overwhelmed his opponents with natural talent and aggression. But he gradually became a much better boxer, and thought about exactly what he was doing in there, used feints, set traps, and reacted to what his opponent was doing.

You've obviously seen the fight where Gay Marquez KHTFO (habhha habha ahbahaa ) right? He was outboxing Marquez clean in that fight, and Marquez is an excellent boxer and thinker.

Calzaghe was no spring chicken either when he fought Nard, but he had the style to beat him.

I have no doubt Pacquiao would beat Hopkins head to head if they were the same size.

 

He really isn't

MTF

 

top 10-15 for Hopkins is INSANE

Next you'll tell me Calzaghe is top 50

 

I'm a Hopkins fan but no way is he top 10-15 OAT

 

Slice has said before many times that Hopkins is vastly overrated and IMO there is a lot to be said for that. I absolutely respect his longevity and he is a crafty bastard for sure but his longevity is as much about the stupidity of his rivals as anything special he does - modern fighters simply cannot deal with his old-school craft. In his 'prime' his best wins are Tarver, who was no all time great himself and a win over an extremely dangerous welterweight (at middleweight) and a very dubious win over another blown up fighter in the transvestite. In two fights against other fighters of similar stature or better, he lost (RJJ/Calzaghe) though some will claim he was 'green' in the former and 'shot' in the latter.

I honestly cannot understand why anyone would have him anywhere near a top 10 p4p all time.

MTF :dunno:

 

Hut is certainly on record saying he is an all-time great.

MTF :bears:

 

You got a mean streak in you Feebes, you know that? You got a mean streak in you to bring that shit up. Of my volume. You were on a bad streak and I brought it up you'd harbour it...... You'd harbour it a long time a long time and you'd be right. Fuck the machine? Fuck the machine? FUCK THE MACHINE! What is this, courtesy class? You're fucked Feebes. Are you fucking nuts? You're hot so you think you're the ruler of this place. You wanna decide who should be dealt with how, is that the thing? I come onto the forum today I get humilated by some jagoff geordie. I get accused of.....I get this shit thrown at my by you you genuine shit because you're top name on the board!?

 

Prime Hopkins beats Calzaghe. Dems the facts.

 

:bears:

For sure. There's no doubt he is a great fighter but he isn't in the upper echelons.

 

After Hopkins kyboshed a fight between them in their primes, we will never know. Now bugger off with this Calzaghe talk.

MTF

 

:laughing::laughing:

You are a good man Hut.

MTF

 

I feel like we've been through this ($$$$$)

 

I think Calzaghe would have always beaten Hopkins, and I say this as a Nard fan/appreciator.

His footwork, toughness, workrate, unpredictable style would have always worked well against Hopkins. What worked well in their fight would have worked just as well prime for prime imo.

Calzaghe was very good at stepping out of range and pushing Bernard off, not letting Nard do what he usually does, with ye olde punch and clinch and rough up routine. He was also good at throwing enough of his own slaps to constantly disrupt Bernard, not let him get into his own rhythm, and not give him time to think much.

 

I agree it's always a tough style match up but being young enough to throw more than 10 punches a round would really help Hopkins out in it

 

Marquez is the greatest fighter of the past 25 years. And that includes Hopkins

 

Negative