Most of Kobe's legacy is artificially enhanced by the league and David $tern's desire to create another Jordan. Great player. But efficiency stats don't like him nearly as much as the raw numbers he posted up. Team success hasn't always been consistent, and he really does deserve his label as a selfish player. Kobe was the beneficiary of having extraordinary support in my opinion. If he had the same career path as a guy like, say Allen Iverson...history would look at him totally differently. He was able to play in LA where the league always rigged games and trades for him to succeed his first three rings were largely due to having the best player in the world on his team and the last two, while legitimate were with great teams against a slightly weaker league at the time. There was no team as strong as the current Heat back then....and the Spurs are better now then they were those two years. They are more balanced and don't play at a snail's pace anymore.
Again? Really? You do realize the definition of "cheap shot" don't you? You really think in that play, which MANY players do every year throughout the year, Bev deliberately tried to injure WB? If you think so, you need to get off dude's nuts Mijo. :: WB is going to have injuries with his style of play, he will be a broken down by the time he's 30, similar to Wade, unless he chills out a bit. Any you call Patrick Beverley a bitch ass all you want, but you need to call him 2nd Team All Defensive Player as well. (I think Tony Allen should have got his spot though) Seriously man, let the Bev/WB thing go, move on. I hear they are even cool with each other now.
In other news.... Sacramento is stupid as fuck for willing to trade their draft pick for Love with no assurances that he will resign. Love WILL NOT re-up with the Kings. I'm pretty sure Hibbert wants out, he has quickly become a very bad contract. 15 million next year with a player option for 15.5 million the following year and of course he's going to take it. No one is going to want a player who drops 0-0-0-5 fouls in playoff games and pay 15 mill for it. Love will end up in Boston or L.A. Lakers. I'm leaning Boston at this point. Melo will either be with the Rockets or Knicks. The Rockets declining Parson's contract today making him a RFA when they could've had him for one more year at under 1 million tells me they are 100% sure about SOMEONE, whether it's Melo, Lowry, Milsap or maybe someone else. But they did that for a reason, essentially throwing away their 2015 capspace if they match whatever Parson's get offered by another team. Lance Stevenson will probably not be with the Pacers next year, signing him for around 10 mill would put them at Luxury Tax and Pacer's Front office aren't exactly thrilled with his antics. The only way I see him staying is if they can find a taker for Hill's contract at 8 mill for the next 4 years, good luck with that. I know a few insiders, (most work for sport's agent companies) I'll post everything I hear. It's going to be a VERY interesting offseason. Spurs/Heat is a toss up, I wouldn't be a nickel on that series.
Why Are YOU Soooo Beholden to Beverley's BALLSACK???...REED's Certain Beverley COULDN'T Care Less What REED Thinks about Him, so WHYthefuck Do YOU???... Anytime Someone Mentions Beverley, in Less than a Positive Light, It's Like Commissioner Gordon Flashing the Bat Signal into the Night Sky, Summoning Batman...& On Cue, Here You Come to Save the Houston Rocket Day... Hadn't Had Shit to Say Since the Rockets were Eliminated, but Here You Come to Defend Beverley's Name... REED Doesn't Like Patrick Beverley...Deal w/It... REED:shit #2:
It's a VERY Close Comparison that Really Comes Down to PREFERENCE, in REED's Opinion...It's Always Tricky Determining who's "Better" btwn Bigs & Perimeter Players... REEDopcorn:
Kobe was EXTREMELY Dominant for a Loooooooooong Period of Time, Neil... OFFENSIVELY, Kobe SHITS on Tim Duncan...Dude Could Go Off for 62pts in 3 Quarters, as he Did vs. the Mavs or Drop 81pts, as he Did vs. Toronto...He's Had STREAKS of 40+ pt Games, he's AVERAGED 35 for a SEASON... Defensively, REED Would Give Duncan an Edge, but Only a SLIGHT 1...Prime Kobe was an ELITE Level Perimeter Defender, Which is More Taxing than Protecting the Paint... You're Acting as if there's NO Arguable Case for Kobe Being the BETTER of the 2, When there Is... REEDopcorn:
Shady Ref'iing & Endorsements Aside, Kobe Bryant Was Able to FILL IT UP on a JordanESQUE Level...That WASN'T Manufactured...He's THE 2nd Best 2-Guard in NBA History... REEDopcorn:
Greatest? Sure. I think peak Wade was better than him though. If you look at advanced stats Wade was better at his peak, he was more efficient, he was a better teammate, a better defender and the only legitimately guard that could be considered a rim protecter probably ever, and his scoring numbers are on par with Kobe's outside of the 35 point year. He also carried a much weaker team to a championship than Kobe did. And if you count championships as being the B man on the team...Wade will likely finish with 5 or 6 depending on these next couple of years. Same as Kobe. I don't really like the fact that Kobe being number 2 is some sort of ridiculous dogma that can't be disputed...it's extremely close and I think it wont really be debated until 20 years from now. Kobe's longevity makes him a greater, more accomplished player but comparing primes is a different ball game.
as far as impact on the game goes a perimeter defender doesnt have nearly the effect a big man does. you find an average roster of 11 NBA guys and put duncan or bryant as the 12th man. guaranteed the team has a better record with duncan at any point in their careers.
Furthermore, Kobe has never been much of a "Stock" guy. I would take an above average defender that gets steals and blocks over a stopper any day of the weak. Steals and blocks lead to easy baskets on the other end... And it's not like Kobe was even as good as Paul George or Tony Allen currently..he was never that dominant defensively. Even during his era there was Bowen, and Artest. Tim Duncan is probably one of the greatest defensive players in the modern era. He's right up there with KG and was on top 5 defensive teams virtually his whole career due to his impact
You Can't Call Kobe the BENEFICIARY of "Rigged" Games, Then Mention Dwyane Wade as Someone BETTER...Have You Forgotten the 1st Heat-Mavs Series, Where Wade was Shooting 20+ Free Throws a Game???... Wade Categorically WAS NOT a Better Man to Man, ON BALL Defender...Wade's Steals, & ESPECIALLY his Blocks, Came on HELP Defense... No Way was Wade a "Comparable Scorer" Either...In Addition to a 35pt Season, Kobe has 2 More of 30+....2 Seasons of 28+ (Not to Mention a 27.9pt Season) & 5 Others of 27+...By Comparison, Wade has 1 30+ pt Season & Only 2 Others of 27+...There's NO Contest in this Realm... Prime for Prime, Kobe Bryant was BETTER...Not MUCH Better, but Better... 2nd Best 2-Guard EVER... REED:kidcool:
That's All Contingent Upon the MAKE UP of the Team... What Eventually Lost the Western Conference Finals for OKC was their Lack of PERIMETER Defense... As for your Average Roster Scenario, Again, it Depends on the Team...Put Prime Kobe on Memphis & they're a DYNASTY...Put Prime Duncan There & Sure, They're BETTER, but Not Necessarily a CHAMPIONSHIP Team... REEDopcorn:
MAYBE 1-2 @ the END of Kobe's Career, but "Several" is Bullshit, Dog... Kobe Bryant was an ELITE Level Defender, Period...& More Times than Not, he RELISHED the Opportunity to Defend the Opposing Team's BEST Perimeter Player... REEDopcorn:
Memphis is not what I'd describe as a team with 11 average players. Okc lost because they run no offense. Period
I agree that series is suspect....but Wade was very aggressive and a lot of those were legitimately fouls. It may have been rigged... There's a difference between a possibility and an admission under federal jury(Donaghy) that games were rigged and an investigation by the FBI. Lakers-Kings being rigged is almost fact, that's how strong the case is. Also take a look at this. This is up to age 28 for both players. http://www.basketball-reference.com...um=1&p1=bryanko01&y1=2007&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010 The Playoffs numbers are more interesting in my opinion.
http://bkref.com/tiny/umHL6 A comparison between Wade's championship third year and Kobe's championship year in 08. Again, the difference is ridiculously small and much smaller than people think. You can basically do this with every year in their careers up to about Wade's 30th birthday. Wade the more efficient scorer, the bigger defensive playmaker and usually having more DWS(take it for what it's worth), and the better facilitator but Kobe having a higher volume of scoring and less turnovers. I think film is the only real decider because statistically it's a wash, and I've never liked Kobe's shot selection and me-first mentality...Wade has always been the better team player and he had lucked into situations that Kobe had he would've had more titles by himself. After Old Shaq left he has NO ONE. He was carrying horrible teams until he got LeBron and Bosh...Kobe dealt with that for one year than cried like a little pathetic manchild and demanded a trade then the league conspired with the Lakers to make sure their narcissistic, rapist golden boy stayed in their biggest market and rigged up a trade to make the Lakers great again.
Also, Kobe's longevity was aided by the use of PEDs. That German surgery is known to be extremely suspect and ironically the only other person I know of to receive that treatment is ALEX RODRIGUEZ. Good company Kobe is in.
Those #'s are SKEWED by Kobe Being an 18-19 Year Old NON-Starter his 1st Two NBA Seasons...Wade Entered the League w/A LOT More Maturity AND STARTED from Day 1... Cutting THROUGH the Bullshit, Take their 5 BEST Seasons, Regular Season OR Playoffs, & Stack them up...REED's Pretty Certain Kobe's Will Be MORE Impressive... REEDopcorn:
I don't like that one. Both play different positions. Lebron is OBVIOUSLY more talented and skilled, but Duncan has won 4 rings so far 2 time MVP, and a 3 time finals MVP. But Lebron will be remembered more by the end of their careers.
I'm saying if you put Duncan or Bryant on a team with the same cast of average players Duncans team would be more successful. Is that a hard concept to understand? Put them each with the same cast of bums and Duncan is more successful because he Instantly makes a team solid defensively. He makes team mates better. Bryant never has
It seems your main point for Kobe's greatness (against Duncan and Wade) is based mostly on Kobe's scoring. You're not factoring in his ball domination and field goal percentages. It's like saying Allen Iverson is the 2nd best 2 guard then throwing up Iverson's scoring averages, amount of 30+ games, and 40+ games as your proof. I'm not saying you're wrong or that I even disagree with you, it's more like your point doesn't exactly convince me. Throwing up 60 & 80 point games looks good on paper but how is it effecting your team? When you're screaming at teammates to pass you the ball because you're going for a record is that greatness? Duncan always does what's best for his team to win. If Duncan's team is down by 1 with 3 seconds left and he's getting single covered and Danny Green is wide open for a three, Duncan makes that pass 10/10 times. Now you put Kobe in that scenerio only he's got an open team mate in both corners and he's being double teamed, Kobe still attacks the double team and throws up a hero-ball shot 10/10 times. Kobe's always had too much to prove often at the detriment of his team. He's one of the smartest players I've ever seen, can see and make passing angles like Jason Kidd, but so few people know what a gifted passer Kobe is because he so often just cares about getting his own offense. He's a smart basketball player but doesn't always play smart. I don't know if any of that detracts from his greatness but I know if my team is down with a few seconds on the clock, Kobe Bryant is one of the last players I'd want with the ball in his hand.
Kobe's the Superior OFFENSIVE Player, Hands Down... Scoring's an Undeniable PART of It...The Lakers WON the Games REED Spoke Of...Kobe had 62 in 3 Quarters, vs. the Mavs & DIDN'T Play Anymore BECAUSE the Lakers were Up Big...That Performance was Actually MORE Impressive than the 81, in REED's Opinion...Having Said That, The Lakers NEEDED Kobe's 81 vs. Toronto, Because that Game was Closely Contested UNTIL the Last Few Minutes of the 4th... Hell, Kobe was SHARING the Ball & "Only" had 26 in the 1st Half of the 81pt Game...He Dialed it Up Out of NECESSITY, Moreso than Stat Reaching... Kobe's a Better SHOOTER than Wade or Duncan...Kobe & Wade are Equal from Mid-Range, but Kobe has a BIG Advantage from Deeeeeeeeeeep....You'll No Doubt Point Out Wade's Higher FG%, Which is a Result of Wade KNOWING his 3pt Game is SUSPECT, so he Rarely Wastes Shots Heaving them Up... Kobe Got Sucked Into "Hero Ball" Because he MADE More Clutch Plays & Game Winners than Anybody THIS Side of Jordan...& for All the "Ball Hogging" Talk, Dude Has a CAREER Average of Nearly 5 Assists PER Game...Even in his 35pt Season, he Averaged 4.5 Dimes... REED:hammert:
The Concept REED is Having a Hard Time Understanding is the 1 Entailing an NBA Squad w/11 AVERAGE Guys...EVERY Squad's Got 1-2, Maybe Even 3 Guys Clearly ABOVE Average... If All 3 of those Guys are BIGS, Duncan WON'T Help that Team More than Kobe Would...If All of those Guys are Perimeter Oriented, Obviously Duncan WOULD Help that Team More... Memphis is a SHINING Example of Squad Kobe Would Help MORE than Duncan Would...Miami's an Example of a Team Duncan Would Fit Better... Is THAT a Hard Concept to Understand???... REED:dunno:
There are people who legitimately think Wade is a better defender than Kobe in their respective primes?
Like REED, You've Obviously Never Heard of "Efficiency Ratings", "DWS", Heartbeats per Dribble, Other Completely INNOCUOUS Stats OR the Notion of Russell Westbrook Being a "Poor Dribbler"... Shame On REED AND YOU... REED:hammert:
