BOXING 101: Explain what a TRUE, ie., OPTIMAL Weight Class or Weight Range Is???...

Explain what a TRUE, ie., OPTIMAL Weight Class or Weight Range Is???...Have You Ever HEARD of Such a Thing???...

Also, List Examples of Fighters WITHIN their "True", ie., Optimal Weight Class or Weight Range & Those That have EXCEEDED It...




REED:mj:

 

Duran at 135
Trinidad at 154
Tszyu at 140
Jirov at 190

 

Mayweather at 130
Chavez at 135
Norris at 154
Morales at 122

 

So What You're Saying is, Duran WASN'T a TRUE Welter, Super Welter or Middleweight???...Trinidad WASN'T a TRUE Middleweight or Supermiddleweight & Jirov WASN'T a TRUE Heavyweight???...

Is THAT What You're Saying???...




REED:kidcool:

 

So Mayweather WASN'T a TRUE Lightweight, Jr. Welter, Welter or Supermiddle???...Chavez WASN'T a TRUE Jr. Welter, Welter or Jr. Middle???...Morales WASN'T a TRUE Feather, Super Feather, Lightweight or Super Lightweight???...

Correct???...




REED:kidcool:

 

I think Floyd's true weight range was always around 130-135. I think he's a small welter. Ditto with Chavez. And Morales peak for me was at 123 pounds for sure.

 

I think without any ambiguity you could say for Duran, for example, that his optimal weight was 135. That is to say, at 160, he was disadvantaged compared to guys whose optimal weight was 160 (and not 135 like Duran).

I suppose you could say that a fighter's true weight class is the one which fits his body type optimally. Or put another way, the one in which he matches up best with his opponents.

 

Miguel Cotto is the lineal MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION of the world right now... That makes him presently a middleweight ... Boxing 101

if REED would like to find where I stated 160 is cotto's best weight, I'd be pleased

 

planet roy was reeds OPTIMAL posting forum :cheer:

 

:l2:

 

You've BEEN There???...





REED:elmo:


ps., it's "REED", Not "reed"...

 

Is Miguel Cotto a TRUE Middleweight???...




REED:kidcool:

 

i don't believe in this concept... It's a load of shit... He's presently campaigning in the middleweight division, therefore he is a middleweight ... As I said from the beginning, the fact that it's not his best weight is completely irrelevant to whether or not he is a middleweight... Right now he is a middleweight

 

honestly cotto has been a middleweight since he was fighting at 140lbs. always entered the ring heavier than 154lbs

 

Ah Yes, FIGHT NIGHT Weight...

Problem w/that "Logic" is, TRUE Middleweights Enter the Ring 170+, These Days...



REED:kidcool:

 

No, it's a VALID, SENSIBLE Concept...

To MOST...



REED:kidcool:

 

Joey Napoles was a natural LW but became a ATG welter
Ezzard Charles was a natural MW but became an ATG LHW and won the HW title
Eddie Mustafa Muhammad was a natural MW, got fat, yet became a very good LHW

 

it's absurd

 

No doubt there is an ideal weight class for every fighter, which depends on the fighter's physique obviously, but also his strengths and weaknesses relative to his opponents in various weight classes, plus his style too.

Fighter's who rely on strength and aggression are going to hit a ceiling faster if they can't change their style. And obviously taller fighters can afford to move up further. But fighters with fast hands may actually benefit from facing bigger and slower opponents.

But I agree with the idea that if a fighter weighs in between 154 and 160, for example, he's a middleweight.

 

I dunno what this thread is about but that kazakh cutie needs to grow some balls and move up in his weight range.

 

This Thread is about ACKNOWLEDGING a Fighter's TRUE/OPTIMAL Weight Class/Range...

McDogg's Being STUBBORN Though...

Because James Toney WEIGHED IN as a Heavyweight, he's Therefore a TRUE Heavyweight, by McDogg's Logic...

Nevermind How SLOPPY Toney's Body Looked, Carrying All that Excess Flab on a 5'9 Frame...Anybody that LOOKS @ James Toney's Heavyweight Body SHOULD Be Able to See that's NOT his TRUE Weight Class...

Micheal Spinks was a TRUE Heavyweight as Well, to Hear him Tell It...Ditto for Roy Jones, when he Beat Ruiz...

& Cotto's Now a TRUE Middleweight...





REED:mut:

 

NEVERfuckingMIND the Pic to the Left, this Man is a TRUE Heavyweight!!!...






REED:elmo:

 

I think part of the problem here is just the choice of phrase.

In cdogg's eyes, Cotto just win the lineal middleweight title from a highly regarded fighter, and looked pretty good doing so, so of course he's a "true middleweight".

A better choice of words would maybe be "natural middleweight". Obviously we can all agree that Pacquiao is not a natural welter and Cotto is not a natural middleweight, despite their respective success at those weights.

I can see both sides of the argument. Of course Cotto is not a natural middleweight, and he shouldn't fight a beast like Golovkin really, he deserves a couple of easy fights before retiring.

HOWEVER, one thing I do very much agree with cdogg and Hut on is that if Cotto stays at 160 as the true, lineal middleweight champion, it's his duty to fight all comers, and that of course includes Gaybox. Anything else makes a mockery of being a "Champion".

 

This is pretty simple... REED keeps insisting that I am saying 160 is Cotto's best weight... I keep asking him to point out where I said any such thing

I have stated 1000 times that Miguel Cotto is the lineal middleweight champ and is currently campaigning in the middleweigth division WHICH MAKES HIM A FUCKING MIDDLEWEIGHT

How can anyone possibly disagree with me on this? The man is fighting in the middleweight division, he is a middleweight

 

It's not quite that simple.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the bone of contention is the belief that Cotto must face GGG next or give up the title. Isn't that where this started?

 

That's just It, McDogg's NEVER Thought Much of Martinez...EVER::...& Martinez Himself Spent the VAST MAJORITY of his Career as a JR. Middleweight...

If it's a VERBIAGE Issue, So Be It...REED's Been VERY Clear on his Interpretation of "TRUE", from the Outset of this Debate...

"TRUE/OPTIMAL/NATURAL" have ALL Been Used, THOUSANDS of Times, on THIS Messageboard & Others & Anybody that Claims to have Not Seen/Heard/Read/Used that Phrasing THEMSELVES, is Straight Up LYING...

Not Sure HOW or WHY it All of a Sudden Became an Issue, when REED Noted Miguel Cotto NOT Being a TRUE Middleweight...It was VERY Obvious what REED Meant, All the While...




REED:hammert:

 

Um no, you are incorrect

Nobody said "face GGG or vacate!"

Some people said Cotto OUGHT to defend against him as it would be the proper thing for a champ to do, i.e. face the number one threat

REED then began saying that Cotto isn't actually a middleweight and it is therefore unreasonable to think he ought to fight GGG... I countered that the man is obviously a middleweight since he currently fights in the division and holds the fucking championship and REED came back with this "true" middleweight bullshit

 

TRUE - Real; Genuine; Authentic: True Gold; True Feelings...

Sorry, but REED's Phrasing IS NOT the Problem Here, Unless Ya'll Have Convinced Yourselves Cotto is a "Real, Genuine, Authentic" MIDDLEWEIGHT, Based on 1 Fucking Fight...





REED:hammert:

 

sorry but when a fighter weighs 155-160 pounds at the weigh-in, he is a Middleweight. It doesn't matter if he started out as a fucking strawweight. He is a middleweight.

"True" is just a bullshit distinction to give the guy special privileges at the weight i.e. "Yeah, I know he's currently a middleweight fighter but since he used to be smaller, it is unfair for him to have to fight other middleweights who have been that size for longer" ... It's excuse making

 

This has been an amusing debate but MWS is right so far as I can tell - this boils down to a semantic debate where 'true' has been used/confused for 'optimal'. I presume McDogg would accept that Cotto is now a 'true' middleweight but that his optimal weight is welterweight? That's how I've read it. If I'm wrong, carry on chaps.

MTF ::