Noticed Berto pushed all night. And so did Broner. The ref warned them like a dozen times but no price was paid. Do you think pushing...shoving off, etc., needs to be addressed? Seems so prevalent now, no doubt inspired by pbf whose favorite move is the push.
All of these infractions need to be dealt with. Leaning on, holding and hitting, pushing, bracing the head. But....remember, Ali used to hold Frazier behind the head and kept getting away with it. Straight arming....another offense used by multiple fighters. The problem is that as feudal as boxing now is, boxers will merely set themselves up with a lenient referee in their preferred venue and carry on regardless. Haye tried to deal with it by flopping to the floor and it worked, up to a point, no pun intended. Problem was referee got tired of his shit and called a flop a knockdown.
Boxing will always leave room for dirty tactics. It's a full contact sport and it would be extremely difficult to eradicate such things.
I agree, but Double has a point, it does seem to be getting a bit out of hand. Fighters are dirtier than ever now. Pacquiao and Marquez are 2 of the only clean elite fighters in the sport.
In & Of Itself, Pushing Off DOESN'T Bother REED Either... But When a Fighter Like Floyd Angles for EVERY Advantage (Gloves, Ring Size, Refs) AND Bitches about Other Fighter's Being "Dirty", it Makes You Wonder Why More of his Opponents DON'T Point This Out...If REED were Training an Opponent of Floyd, he'd CONSTANTLY Remind the Ref about Floyd Pushing Off... Dude Does it MANY Times in EVERY Single Fight...Floyd Pushes Off MORE than Sugar Shane Glove Touches... REED:scared:
That is true. It can be frustrating to watch. He's constantly pushing, and using the forearm. Hard pushes too, more than just creating space. For whatever reason, Floyd gets away with it more than any fighter in boxing. He doesn't even get warned, let alone have a point deducted.
He does it because he knows he will get away with it. He's boxing's superstar. Imagine if Floyd's next fight is correctly referee'd (Is that even a word?). Imagine the outcry, the controversy, heads will roll. The major networks will make sure the ref will behave. For some reason, holding is more punishable than pushing. Fighters that hold almost always will get warned or deducted a point. And Floyd knows this.
I think holding remains a huge problem in boxing. But as poorly and as inconsistently as holding is handled by refs, pushing is almost always tolerated. I think it's hard to fathom just how significant a ref can be in a fight. It's easy to assume that he's out of the way and makes little difference. But at the highest level when top guys are battling to impose their style on the fight? You have to know for some fighters it can mean needing a knock out to win.
Why? Imagine a taller fighter pushing a shorter fighter every time he got close enough to land. Why is that not a problem?
if they are face to face and the taller fighter pushes him then to me it is the same as if he punched him. the shorter fighter should be able to adapt and avoid this happening as long as his arms are free.
Why is it the same? If it were the same, fighters would not push. They'd just punch. A push serves an entirely different purpose than a punch. So if there's a reason you think pushing is okay, you haven't articulated it yet.
so if a fighter has two closed fists and hits his opponent in the shoulders, serving as a push, should that be illegal ?
but wouldn't the shorter fighter be more likely to do the pushing? to keep the tall fighter from holding.....if a fighter holds they deserve the hook-off-the-push treatment
It's exactly what Foreman used to do and they always called it pushing... I completely see Neil's point Holding is about 900000 times more egregious and commonplace
because it is a real problem that is endemic in the sport unlike pushing which is arguably not even a problem
Ok. But the topic is pushing. Do we need a second thread on holding? Thing is, we've talked at length about the problem of holding. Especially in light of the Kell Brook fiasco. What we haven't talked about as much, and that I think a lot of us are not attuned to, is the amount of pushing that fighters get away with.
I know the topic is pushing I'm saying pushing isn't that big a deal. I offer holding as something that is a big deal.
Well I think Neil ' s point is that pushing is tantamount to punching. But it isn't. Pushing is different from punching in the same way that measuring someone is not the same as punching. And just like measuring, pushing too is indeed illegal.
Cmonnnnn man, we all know that Papa Tito placed adamantium metal in Tito's wraps. Without his Wolverine wraps, he hit no harder than Ray Olivera.
Trinidad's pushing was somewhat dirty but wasn't that frequent. But Trinidad obviously had more serious transgressions than pushing.
