Tonight's fights........

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:atu:

 

Wlad should fight Fury and Wilder before retiring.

 

Ali is a pfp great, ffs.

 

I think he should just pack it in now.

 

He's not even close to being the best ever, P4P.

 

What's your pount? It was pathetic and illegal and boring when Ali did it. And it's pathetic when Wlad did it.

I guess the only difference is there is some precedent of Ali winning fights without resorting to it, whereas in Wlad's case, it appears (even if not in actuality) it's his only recourse to not getting knocked out.

Still, Ali ' s fights in the 70 ' s were horrible affairs, even the supposedly great thrill a in manilla I thought was a boring and hideous fight....

 

If Wlad is allowed hold behind the head and lean on Joe Frazier as often as Ali was, he has a great chance to win.

 

Don't dispute that, Lewis' safety first style and hold-the-head-down-and-throw-an-uppercut move was terrible to watch at times.. but he was still light years ahead of wald pussy

I think Lewis would probably beat Holmes, good fight though (in the sense that it'd be competitive, more than in the sense that it'd be interesting to watch)

 

Brother...take that back! You wanna take this outside?

 

I think it'd be awfully tough to objectively keep him out of the top 10... Completely dominant in his first reign, came back from a three year layoff to be the best of the deepest era in the history of his division ... Proved basically all a guy can prove and left no unanswered questions ... Not too many guys you can say that about

 

Ali never learned to fight small so I can't put him in a top 10 P4P

 

:atu:

 

Lemme put it this way... I guess there's three types of p4p all time lists... Who beats who (the most useless to me because p4p matchups are made up of nothing but fallacies no one agrees on), the judged solely against your era type (so no timeline adjustment, so Harry Greb makes the list because you can't find a notable middleweight or light heavyweight of his time he didn't beat at least once) and finally the kind that acknowledges that boxing wasn't really boxing until around the early 1940s so guys like Greb and Benny Leonard don't belong and you're basing it on quality of comp, performance against that comp, etc (the best kind of this type of list, IMO).. I think there's a fair chance Ali might make the first list and I'm fairly certain he'd deserve a spot on the last two

 

Forget about the top 10, tough to keep him out of the top 3 considering his quality of BEATEN opposition (I only count QOO if it's beaten op)...dominance in first reign as you said (including predicting rounds etc), wining teh title three times, number of championship wins, beating George Foreman etc. He basically beat every man there was to beat in the 60s and 70s. I have him at numero uno personally. Trumps SRR for me (even if Ali himself wouldn't agree...seeing that Robinson was his hero).

 

Ali is very high up for me, top 5 at least. Based on resume (Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Williams, etc), who he'd beat head-to-head (who would you confidently pick to beat the Ali who battered Williams & Terrell?) and his intangible attributes - toughness and ability to find a way to win.

 

So we are in agreement, Ali leaned on guys and pulled down their head and leaned on their neck and cheated.

I am going to count the number of times he did this in the first Frazier fight.