Did Ali fear Foreman?

I wonder how the fight would have went in 20ft ring. Kinda fascinating.

 

Bless you

 

Not only that, but the ferocious body punishment he had to endure against Frazier in their fights... Just insane stuff... The one thing that idiot Pacheco knew something about was Ali's health and injuries and he always marveled at how much trauma he absorbed against Frazier

 

I don't think it would have mattered... Ali still would have resorted to the same tactic

 

Exactly....

Ali's Mobility had GREATLY Diminished by the Foreman Fight...Ali "Rope-a-Doped" BECAUSE he No Loooooooooonger Possessed the Wheels to Stay Away from Foreman (or Anybody Else), for an Extended Period of Time...

A Smaller Ring Would've Resulted in a SIMILAR Outcome...





REED:hammert:

 

Probably at some point but certainly not so early. Maybe when Ali was already more worn down and there were fewer rounds left to execute the strategy. It was a unique strategy in response to a uniquely small ring....Not saying it changes anything or not, but its definitely interesting to imagine

 

Probably the best point that hardly anyone ever makes: Body-punch resistance.

It's common and almost universaly to say "he's got a chin like rock", "can take a punch" - and also "you can't train for shots the body - if you get hit right, you'll go down"

Ali, as you said, somehow managed to diffuse stuff that Foreman and Frazier dished -out downstairs.

Great point.

 

Even the "easy" fights were hard. Quarry hurt him badly to the body in their first fight and then there was Chuvalo etc. When you turn the other guys face into putty and YOU go to the fucking hospital..........that says it all.

Kidneys are tiny, sophisticated organs, very fragile. They are placed around the back of the body for a reason. Unfortunately, that's just exactly where looping body punches, a motion anathema to early humans, are going to land.

Just one of those things I guess. Boxing makes a mockery of evolutions safeguards. Deep eye sockets, designed to protect the eye, open easily. The hand, designed to NOT be struck with, is protected. Kidneys are in the direct line of fire. The natural motion of crouching or bending to avoid incoming reveals the back of the skull. The chin acts as a leverage point, so as to more efficiently snap the head from side to side.

::

 

Yup... Ali was remarkable in this regard

 

The pre-exile career proved Ali the fastest heavyweight ever, a man whose talents allowed him to break the rules

The post-exile career proved Ali was one of the toughest heavyweights ever, when he could no longer use those talents consistently and had to rely on his durability as much as his fists

 

Ali was tough as nails, fast as lightning and always in it to win it.

It bothers me when people call him one of the greatest defensive fighters and put him in p4p lists though. He had a handful of legendary virtuoso performances but outside of those he got hit a lot... And outside of prime Frazier and Holmes who both beat his ass, none of his opponents are top 100 p4p imo.

Ali is so clearly not a great defensive fighter that people cling to "pre exile" Ali/Clay, which is funny because that Ali is a ko waiting to happen against elite p4p competition.

 

Which fighters in heavyweight history have a better resume than Ali?

 

Defensively he was awful but it was as much out of choice as anything else. If he had run he could have won but it would have blunted his own offense.

 

He got hit a lot.

He shouldn't be on any pfp defensive lists, for sure.

Chuck Wepner wouldn't have landed sweat on Vitali never mind floored him ::

 

Ali was obviously well past his best when he was (fucking easily) beating guys like Wepner

 

Ali's greatness as a fighter is simply beyond reproach.

 

Calsassy has a deep fear of black penises entering his mouth and butt

 

None. He's the GOAT at heavyweight but that doesn't make him a top 5, 10, 20 pfp. He was a great fighter who could use a defensive style but that doesn't make him a great defensive fighter.

 

I disagree.

 

I don't follow your logic here, unless you mean that any fighter who steps into ring and slips punches instead of blocking them is a KO waiting to happen.

Yes, Ali could use the risky, "wrong" style because he had the attributes to do so (the reach, movement and reflexes). I don't believe any fighter in the history could have KOed that Ali.

So either there haven't been any top 100 p4p fighters in the heavyweight or perhaps it is not possible to be a top 100 fighter in a heavyweight, since heavyweights never have the same speed, body coordination and relative reach than smaller guys. This is like saying that if there had been a guy with Tommy Hearn's speed and power in a heavyweight frame, he would have beaten Ali: it just doesn't exist.

If heavyweights of that time (or before) had been 'better', then perhaps Ali/Clay would have defended himself in a more traditional way. Now he did what worked for him. If you change one thing, everything else changes too.

 

Umm, it's not the way he slipped punches that makes me question his skills and defense. Lol.

How does a physical phenom like Ali get hit and exposed so regularly by such average fighters?

How does the fastest p4p greatest defensive fighter ever get walked down and beat up by ken Norton and Joe Frazier? Because his technique and tactics are that flawed.

If Ali was a tall rangy super quick iron chinned welterweight/middleweight comparable to what he was at hw Hearns would've knocked him out and he would've lost ti a lot of other top welters and middles if that era.

If he can't beat Norton at hw he can't beat a prime Cotto p4p, so how is this guy a legit top 10 all time p4p'er?

 

Would you agree that Cotto is significantly better than Norton? Trinidad better than Frazier or Foreman? Why are these guys not top 40 but the punch drunk defensive master top 5 or 10?

 

Frazier and Foreman's resumes are better than Trinidad's though...

 

Fraziers resume is better because he beat Ali and foremans is better because he beat Frazier but who's better p4p by your eyes? Trinidad or Foreman and Frazier? Cotto lost his biggest fights decisively and Norton beat Ali at least once but who's better?

 

I am not sure at all if Cotto is better than Norton, tbh. He had way more achievement yes, but you just can't compare fighters p4p this way. If Cotto was a heavyweight, he would be much slower, he would get tired more quickly, he would get hit much more, less amount of punches would crumble him etc. It is almost a different sport when the weight classes are that much apart It is like comparing Tiger Woods to Michael Jordan ball-for-ball

 

You understand that Ali was diminished after his exile, yes?

 

I for one would not.

MTF

 

Do You Still Believe Rosendo Alvarez Would've BEATEN Floyd Mayweather Lb for Lb, Terp???...





REED:hammert:

 

You think he did not fear them and actually craved them going in and out of his brown dirty cave?

 

I would think literally the opposite of what Terp said