Highest/Lowest Ring IQ's of all time

Highest:

Floyd
Hopkins
Archie Moore
Leonard
Robinson
Roy
M.Spinks
Whitaker
Duran
Chavez
Monzon
Ortiz
Arguello
Locche
Ward

Lowest:

J.Taylor
P.Williams
Lacy
Khan
Provo
Victor Ortiz
Berto
Pascal
Gatti
Sam Peter

Others?

 

In terms of current guys, definitely seems that Roman, Ward, Crawford, Rigo, GGG, and Loma are the 6 quickest thinkers.

 

I'll try to add some you didn't mention.

High

Benitez
Pep
Calzaghe
Kovalev
Hagler
McCallum
Toney
Rigo
Lomachenko


Low

Tua
Haye
Mickey Ward
Victor Ortiz
John Ruiz
Mayorga
Judah
Gamboa

 

Though unproven at top level, both Spence and Verdejo appear to be very ring savvy. We shall see how far they make it.

Takashi Uchiyama is also a really smart guy. The way he sets up and places his shots is class.

Grudgingly, I have to add Wlad.

Kostya Tszyu also seemed to be very goo at making adjustments in his fights.

 

Jury is still out on Verdejo's ring IQ.

Spence, yes, seems to have a very high boxing IQ. But jury is still out on him too mostly.

Tszyu, yes, he had a high ring IQ.

I'll add DeJesus as another guy with a really high ring IQ.

Good shouts on Judah and Gamboa for low IQ's. ALLL that speed and athletic ability they have.... no brains to back it up.

 

Ortiz vs Berto, great fight, but in retrospect one of the lowest combined IQ affairs you'll ever see. Neither Ortiz nor Berto had ANY boxing acumen.

 

Agree about Verdejo... Needs more time and experience, though I see the potential.

Terry Norris for me had a high ring IQ but his overall temperament is what cost him a lot over the years.

James Kirkland has a really low ring IQ. All heart... Nothing else.

Jean Pascal is another. Fights with no strategy.

 

Yeah, Kirkland and Provo might be overall THE dumbest fighters in history.

 

I don't think you can include Hopkins in that list - a guy with ATG ringsmarts wouldn't have lost the taylor rematch by making the exact same strategic mistake as the first fight

 

Chris Eubank, relative to his talent, wasn't that high on ring IQ.

He fought like he THOUGHT he was an intelligent fighter, but he wasn't.

 

Lennox Lewis comes to mind. When he was on his game he seemed to know when to play coy and when to jump on a guy

 

I think Hopkins for whatever reason fought scared in a lot of instances against Taylor. He would get in his shots, but he fought like a guy who didn't wanna get hit, and that's what cost him.

 

Agreed. Just going through the motions they learned to repeat in the gym and without much regard to what their opponent actually does in the ring.

 

I wont put a list together...but I want to discuss it.

People seem to assume that ring IQ is synonymous with boxing talent. It's not necessarily the same thing. So most people's lists will be heavy on boxers and light on slugger/puncher/pressure fight types.

Ring IQ is all about the ability to adjust mid-fight when necessary and use your strengths against your opponent's weaknesses and acknowledge what your own limitations are and play the fight out like a game of chess...move therefore counter move etc.

Some guys look intelligent, simply because of how physically gifted they are....but in reality they are winning boxing matches because of their advantages in speed and stamina and not necessarily because they are thinkers.

 

On the contrary....Hopkins has to be on EVERY LIST and perhaps near or at the top of every list. He's actually the very definition of an intelligent fighter. He's the example to look at.

The Taylor fights were a styles thing....and Taylor was particularly inspired at that time.

 

sometimes difficult to disentangle 'intelligence' from stamina, i'd say. Did Floyd take over in the final third vs Cotto because he made some adjustment or because he was significantly fresher? Same question applies to a few Calzaghe wins.

 

And sometimes it's possible to conflate intelligence and shamelessness. Like when you 'intelligently' get yourself a 24 foot clown ring and run laps around it away from your opponent

 

Mayweather is an adjuster. For example he usually fights with the shoulder roll/ philly shell defense...he faces Zab Judah....Shoulder roll has him in difficulty early..so he switches to high guard stalking. Against Pacquiao...lead right hand didn't seem to be working as effectively as he thought it would (and trained for)..so he switched to check left hook in the 7th round and cruised for the rest of the fight without difficulty. Against Cotto...it was more that he was beating him up over the first few rounds and Cotto was done in the late rounds....I agree it wasn't adjustment in that fight it was just that he was fresher.

Calzaghe...probably more natural talent than intelligence, per se, Calzaghe just had it all...one of the most naturally gifted fighters to ever lace'em up!

 

Roy Jones....without his natural gifts...he has no contingency plan. I don't see him as a particularly intelligent fighter...just otherworldly physically gifted...perhaps THE most gifted fighter ever.

 

Mike Tyson....underrated ring IQ. Had difficulty landing on Buster Mathis Jnr...so what does he do? Jumps to the right...immediately throws the left hook and it's lights out baby! He made similar adjustments to other fighters that were giving him difficulty. he worked out late against Buster Douglas that the right uppercut wa sthe way to go...problem is...he was too spent by then to capitalize on that revelation.

 

Low ring IQ....Felix Trinidad. Supremely gifted in terms of offensive arsenal and stamina....but when things aren't going his way he has no plan B.

Also Shane Mosley. Speed, chin, power, aggression....but a one trick pony - fancy looking slugging (or "Power-Boxing" as his father used to call it)

 

Trinidad did not have a low ring IQ

 

Tito wasn't amongst the highest ring IQs but he knew what he had to do. He just wasn't able to do it in the fights he lost.

 

I agreed with your earlier takes, but not this.

I don't think Tito's problem was his lack of intelligence, it was his lack of footwork, which is a skill.

Though now that I think of this, I don't know if these can be separated. Is Floyd intelligent, or does he just have a greater variety of weapons to use (=skill)? And is Khan actually stupid as a fighter, or is the problem that he really can't box and thus makes "stupid" mistakes?

I am lost with this

 

Ok...I should qualify my remarks (and you should qualify this thread...for it to be meaningful).

Trinidad had a low IQ relative to his trained boxing talent. He was brilliant in knowing how to inflict punishment on an opponent, how to feint and disguise shots and find openings etc...but when things weren't going his way he didn't know how to change the tide or even attempt to do so.

 

To say Jones didn't have a high ring IQ is absurd. His physical gifts were other worldly, but wouldn't have been nearly as effective if he DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO USE THEM! There's been plenty of naturally talented guys in history who didn't have the acumen to properly use their gifts - Jones had the brain to maximize his talent. Nothing Roy did in the ring was just for the helluva it, or without a purpose. There was intent and thought in everything he did, and always knew how which counter to throw and when. That IS ring intelligence.

 

The answer is both. Floyd has been trained since the crib, so everything he's ever done in the ring was 2nd nature and came from VERY early indoctrination. But he also thought extremely well in the ring independently.

And Khan can't box, AND he just has very low ring IQ. Everything he does in the ring is off of instinct and training. Not much actual THOUGHT goes into his attack.

 

Fair enough. Perhaps I'm being a little hard on Roy.

Still...it was more his speed and reflexes that carried him....because after he lost them, everyone had a chance to beat him. Contrast that with Hopkins....who could still hang with teh best of them even at the grand old age of 50.

 

^^ ding ding. Ugo have a keen mind.

 

He does. I'm impressed with that Fin, I must admit.