Highest/Lowest Ring IQ's of all time

That goes back to the point Ugo is making.

Not having the skill Hop and Floyd had BECAUSE he was so dependent on his gifts.

It's not a reflection of his lack of intelligence though. His brain was telling him "Exploit that opening", but his body was saying "I can't do it anymore".

 

Not buying off the judges? He didn't have that type of money at the time.

 

So is this topic really just about Talent vs Skill?

 

I would agree with Sly that Tyson's ring IQ is actually pretty underrated. D'Amato was HEAVILY HEAVILY into the mental aspect of boxing, and taught Mike how to THINK about his attack. And by all accounts, Tyson processed that info better than any other fighter D'Amato had taught.

Tyson knew how to properly spot openings, and once he saw them, knew the correct punch/combo to use to exploit that opening. He did that EXTREMELY well, and not EVERY offensive fighter has the acumen to do that.

 

No, it's a ring IQ. It's just important to decipher ring IQ from talent/skill.

I'll give you an example - Broner. Broner actually IS pretty skilled/well schooled. But his ring IQ is lacking.

 

Give me an example of him not having the IQ.

 

I mentioned Judah and Gamboa earlier...

Two supremely TALENTED guys. Hand speed, punching power, reflexes, athleticism.

But both guys fought with very little thought and strategy. There was often no set up in what they would do. It was just attempting to out speed their opponents. Both were reckless and sloppy in their attacks, and they couldn't exploit an opponent's weaknesses if they got past the 4th round. Those are signs of low ring IQ.

There was no method in how they approached it. Neither guy made good use of jabs, feints, distance, punch selection.

Both were predictable fighters and had it not been for their speed and reflexes, they would have gotten beat sooner.

 

Good breakdown and Zab Judah is a prime example of this. Not sure X's Broner qualifies though.

Zab Judah showed his lack of intelligence against Tszyu. The right hand that dropped him, hurt that badly because Zab was moving his head aimlessly (showing off his speed and "slickness") and actually moved into the punch like an imbecile. The rest is history.

True master boxers, wait for the punch to initiate, see where it's coming from, and move accordingly.

 

Agreed that Calzaghe had excellent ring IQ

 

Yep. Running directly into punches or pulling the head straight back in the face of a straight right is an example of low ring IQ. Both guys were guilty of this.

Both also had a tendency to drop their hands after punching. Whether that's due to cockiness or ignorance, it's still not intelligence being shown in the ring.

 

Roy had a great ring IQ. He recognized what his opponent was fundamentally trying to do and he always understood the natural counter to it.

Trinidad had an excellent ring IQ. He made his name by adjusting in the early rounds and generally figuring guys out mid fight and disposing of them.

Broner and De La Hoya are good examples of talented guys with low ring IQ's. DLH was super talented and technically skilled but he often had trouble finding "the right thing to do" in fights to make them easier when it was something he could clearly do if he wanted. Broner repeats tactics and generally approaches fights in ways that it should be clear to him aren't going to work in a sustainable way. He can't keep opponents as mentally off balance as he should with his speed.

 

Although I'm quite comfortable saying amir Khan is stupid

 

While that's basically true it would have been nice to see him utilize that IQ when his skills deteriorated. Sure there comes a time when fighters are past it, can see the moves, but can't take advantage of them. Some refuse to accept it and it seems Roy was one of them.

On the other hand in his prime he was able to utilize the jab to neutralize an opponent like Pazienza when he didn't even require it. While RJJ was far from dumb boxing wise if he had a HIGH boxing IQ he could have done such things more often.

 

Roy certainly is delusional. That he is. He thinks he's still the Roy of 96. I dunno if that's lack of ring intelligence, or just plain delusion.

But in his PRIME, as Terp said, he did a very good job of analyzing what his opponent was doing and quickly processing and reacting to it. SOME of that was just because he had VERY rare talent, but some of it was also because he could think quick.

And Terp is correct. Oscar never was the brightest fighter. Can't call him a DUMB fighter like Khan, or Jermain Taylor, but he sure as Hell didn't have a high ring IQ either.

 

I don't know about ROy intelligence. I recall him being very confused by the jab of Harding, and barely doing anything because of it.

Same thinh happened in the first Griffin fight and in the Harmon fight, to a much lesser extent.

It seem that when is usual tricks were not working, he was't really able to adapt.

 

You're 100% of point with Broner, and broke that down better than I could, tbh.

That's what separates a guy like Broner from a guy like Crawford or Ward. Ward/Crawford have the ring intelligence to always recognize the "right" thing to do. Broner doesn't. He's well-schooled, and he has above average quickness and athleticism (he's not SUPER quick and athletic though). There's just not much going on up there as far as mental processing.

 

Bad examples, because by the end of the Harding fight he was figuring out Harding out and putting more distance between them. He also eventually figured Griffin out before getting DO'd.

 

He never figured Harding out, Roy only had better success since Harding injured himself and became a one handed fighter. The Griffin example is a better counter-argument, but i think it was more of a case of him just being so superior than Griffin, than any adjustement made by Roy

 

I'd have to re-watch the Harding fight. I'm lying, I won't, it was a HORRIBLY boring fight. I do remember him having early trouble with Harding though. BUT, if I'm not mistaken, Harding hurt his shoulder as a result of Roy PUNCHING him in the shoulder.

 

Invite all your friends over and tell them to sit tight while they watch something amazing.

 

Then you have guys who lacked a lot of physical talent, but who still were good fighters due to their ring IQ. A good example of this is Greg Haugen. Not the fastest guy, not the biggest puncher, but Haugen had a good ring IQ. A good example is him out-thinking Jimmy Paul for 15 rounds.

Sure, he was completely lost against Whitaker, but who wasn't?

 

Lol, I might be the one mistaken, as I haven't rewatched the fight since it happened. And like you, I sure won't rewatch it anytime soon, as it was such a bore

 

I'm pretty sure I'm correct though. Roy punched out Harding's shoulder. Cause I definitely remember him targeting the shoulder a lot after struggling early.

So that's ANOTHER example of Roy having a high IQ.

 

I seem to recall Harding tearing his bicep, because...as you said...Roy Targeted the bicep. The point still stands though, Harding was winning that fight until the injury and Roy couldn't figure out his style.

 

Rocky Marciano had a high ring IQ. Which is something a casual fan watching his fights probably couldn't understand or recognize. Rock understood how to break guys down by understanding WHERE to hit them at and WHEN. Banging on their arms, shoulders, anywhere to get them to weaken. And that's an intelligence.

 

What about Muhammad Ali? Surely that's the elephant in the room.

In his pre-exile days, was it just otherworldly speed, reflexes and athleticism that carried him through? Or was there simply supreme intelligence that carried his craft? Post-exile...was it toughness, heart, determination, and handspeed that won the day...or was there some intelligence that he used once his movement and reflexes were compromised?

 

High ring IQ...

Evander Holyfield
Hector Camacho

 

:gig: when did the injury happen round 1?

 

Larry Holmes of course is amongst the high ring IQs.

Kell Brook has shown a good ring IQ. His style isn't always pretty, but he knows what he's doing out there and you can just tell he's the type of guy who can go and get it done.

Danny Garcia has good ring IQ. His problem is that he's slow and clumsy. He'll always have problems with movers but he'll always be good at finding the openings against fighters that come at him.

 

He was so accustomed to just pushing the button and executing his moves like a kid playing Tekken that he couldn't adjust to the new pace and rules he was forced to fight at and he let himself get kind of sloppy but that's what made him entertaining in his prime. That was clear in the Johnson fight when he basically got ran over by a pretty average fighter.

Roy imploding against Griffin and falling from the top so hard suggests Roy is a bit of a front runner and when he's matched against other greats you never here "Roy in a close one" because it's hard to imagine even a prime Roy winning a tough fight against a great fighter. But it's not that hard to see a prime Roy beating a lot of greats because of his talent and ring smarts.