THE Duran....DeJesus III version...

I watch Ali-Williams, and feel like I'm watching a more special fighter than Floyd.

I watch Chavez-Rosario, and feel like I'm watching a more special fighter than Floyd.

I watch Monzon-Griffith 1, and feel like I'm watching a more special fighter than Floyd.

I watch ANY of Whitaker's lightweight fights and feel like I'm watching a more special fighter than Floyd.

 

Please let's not try to change history here and make it seem like May vs. Pac didn't happen sooner because PACQUIAO thought he was A-side and deserve a 50/50 split.....maybe the first year it was THAT...but for 4-5 years it was FLOYD throwing out excuse after excuse....Olympic drug testing, won't do business with Arum, let me retire I'm not happy, etc...etc...

 

I hear you....but both guys were to blame.

 

Ok let's talk Duran. He squeezed Ken Buchanons balls. I don't know how he got around the cup but he clearly grabbed the mans junk and twisted it. That's not cool.

 

Damn I forgot about Canelo...I give you that....also Hatton(though he was SHIT at 147 as his gift decision before the May fight vs. Collazo proved)

 

Fair enough but I suspect that you may be thinking about recent Floyd. Young Floyd...Corrales version was a virtuoso.

 

I NEVER think of recent Floyd when gauging Floyd. What, you think I actually care to re-watch the Berto fight, and the Maidana fights?

I KNOW you remember when I was the forum's second biggest Floyd fan behind you. It was years ago, but I know you remember.

You and I were the forum's two MAIN Floyd groupies. REED was a fan too, but not like me.

And even THEN at the peak of my Floyd fandom, I never thought of him as being on the Duran/Leonard/Ali level.

 

Anyway....for me the top two fighters in history in terms of raw talent during their primes are Ali and Jones. Not even Robinson do i rate over them.

Most boxing fans are lemmings anyway....including most of you. Y'all don't think for yourselves for the most part and follow what is fashionable. Ray Robinson is SUPPOSED to be ranked P4P #1 by everyone who knows boxing so everyone does it so that they can have credibility. But he fact is we have never seen extensive welterweight footage and from the middleweight footage that we've seen, he was beatable. He had a beautiful style of fighting..yes. he had speed, power, chin, heart, stamina..and every talent ON PAPER...yes. But he wasn't teh best adjuster MID FIGHT (usually required rematches to beat difficult opponents) and he was more hitable than many great boxers.

Ali and Jones....were more untouchable virtuoso fighters IMHO...and rank above him in talent.

 

Duran was a better fighter than Ali. So was Leonard. And we're talking about my favorite ATHLETE in history. A guy who I look up to more than Martin Luther King.

Best heavyweight of all time, yes.

But Duran was a better overall fighter than Ali, and a better talent as well.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. P4P I think Ali would have beaten Duran every day of the week.

People usually rank other people over Ali because he didn't throw body punches. Thing is...he didn't need to throw body punches to win fights....so why is that held against him?

 

135 Duran, 135 Whitaker, 147 Leonard, and 168 Jones are the four best fighters I've ever seen.

Old timers would say 147 Robinson, and 175 Ezzard Charles are the two GOAT's. They're most likely right, but there's not enough footage.

 

ALI was the GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT of all time......P4P Ali vs. Duran would be like Ali fighting Frazier x 4,000....it will be a SUPER Joe Frazier body shots, left hooks, right cross...a jab ...every fucking punch in the book....not a good P4P matchup for ALI....Throwing a jab...and and occassional right hand or hook. is NOT going to be enough....

 

P4P Duran cuts off the ring on Ali. We're not talking about the older Duran who Benitez outboxed who was slower.

Lightweight Duran had the quickest feet of any pressure fighter in history.

You almost act like Duran wasn't athletic or something. Duran was EVERY BIT the athletic freak of Ali, just in a different way.

Duran was MORE of an athletic freak than Floyd, that's for certain.

 

I can see the case for whitaker, leonard and Jones (obviously)..just not Duran. Duran was great...but for me...not a candidate for G.O.A.T/T.B.E

 

While we were not alive in that era, by all accounts Robinson was considered a very smart fighter who could adapt and adjust to any opponents style. Remember there was only one belt per division at that time, and due to the war, fight footage was not the easiest thing to come by.

Now I can only go by whats been said, but anyone who has beaten that many hall of fame fighters in their primes including Kid Gavilan twice, and Lamotta 4 times, has to be a bad motherfucker. Especially when we know that the great Ali himself MODELED his fight game after Robinson in a lot of ways.

Today's era, you don't even have to fight guys in their primes anymore, and you don't even have to fight fighters that are even all that good to be considered champion or even great.

But I will say this, for me Roy Jones is the absolute BEST fighter I have ever seen with my own two eyes. Not even Floyd can touch him IMO. Especially the 168 lbs Roy Jones. He had the combination of his gifts along with his smarts to back it up. I would say Pernell Whitaker follows.

 

Duran had fast feet, yes...but people seem to forget that Ali weighed 210lbs. They are comparing his footwork to a welterweight/lightweight in relative terms. he was as fast as a welter/light in terms of footspeed and upperbody movement even though he was 210lbs. that's what's incredible about him in his prime. So P4P....he's be MUCH faster than any lightweight Duran faced.

 

word.

 

Okay let's give Ali the super fast feet......but Ali almost never threw body shots(because he didn't have to u say) but also because of his style...what about uppercuts? inside fighting? nope..nope nope....so are you telling us that a guy with fast feet..SUPER FAST even...with a simple jab, jab, jab, occasional right, and maybe a hook will beat P4P prime Duran??...NO body shots...no inside fighting...uppercuts...

Every time Ali clinch...it's not going to be heavyweight leaning on him...it's Duran he will throw punches in the clinch...

 

I've never heard a hardcore fan consider Floyd better than Roy. That's the shit only casuals would say.

Prime Jones was a better fighter than Floyd, and I don't think there's even a debate about it.

 

It's a myth that Ali never threw uppercuts or couldn't inside fight. A myth that has grown over time. The only way he could hit Frazier cleanly was with uppercuts...for example. And Frazier's face after the first fight showed that Ali hit him frequently.

Secondly..and sticking with Frazier...have you never seen an Ali-Frazier fight? He wasn't dancing in those days...he was forced to infight with Frazier...arguably the best infighter in heavyweight history

 

There is debate.

Roy was faster and hit harder...but in every other conceivable way Floyd matched him or bettered him.

However it's because of Roy's edge in handspeed and power that I give him the overall edge...but it is debatable.

Boxing is very subjective, when you're pitching two greats (which they are) against each other. You cannot say Roy is better objectively...based on what we know of both fighters.

 

I will say this...I rate Roy over Floyd for one reason and one reason only....his shut out of Toney...was more impressive than any one win on Floyd's resume....and perhaps on the resume of anyone else in history (Ali-Liston 1 is a close second).

 

Yeah, Frazier was the best infighter in HEAVYWEIGHT history.

Duran was LEAPS and fuckin BOUNDS more talented than Frazier in a P4P sense.

 

And Prime ALi was leaps and bounds better than post exile Ali.

 

True, but I don't think Frazier is EVER an easy fight for Ali.

66 Ali beats 71 Frazier, but it's no walk in the park.

Frazier wasn't a PUNCHER like Liston. He was a pressure fighter, which is more problematic for Ali.

Duran was the ULTIMATE pressure fighter.

And then there's the other thing about prime Duran that's amazing - the man NEVER got tired. Endless, endless stamina.

 

Duran never fought a lightweight with comparable movement and defensive reflexes to a prime Ali, Jones, Mayweather or even Leonard.

Corrales looked like a great pressure fighter against the Frieatas, Castillo and Manfredy's of the world too.

Not saying Duran was on the same level as Corrales...obviously Duran was much better....but saying it's easy to look great against guys that don't have the skills to make you look bad.

 

Conveniently when Duran met master boxers (Leonard in the rematch, Benitez, Hearns) and lost...his fanbase claimed he was past his best. All very convenient. But at lightweight he didn't have a master boxer of that level to prove he could handle that combination of speed and style. And yes...leonard fought his fight in Montreal, no matter how much you want to deny it.

 

Ken Buchanan is easily one of the best movers in lightweight history and Duran cut him off with ease. And that was a still RAW Duran. He hadn't even hit his prime yet.

DeJesus was a great talent and a greatly skilled fighter who belongs in the HOF, and Duran systematically took him apart in their two championship fights.

Jose Luis Castillo had success in tracking Floyd down in his prime. Then years later you see Hatton able to track down a still prime Floyd (until the difference in class showed).

Duran COULD and WOULD track down Floyd.

The Corrales comparison is TERRIBLE. You're talking about arguably THE slowest feet coming forward in Corrales versus THE quickest feet coming forward in Duran.

 

When Ali conveniently fought the only two p4p level HW's in his entire career he lost decisively.

 

The one thing I don't Sly's not realizing when talking about a lightweight Duran is how HARD he was to hit clean.

This statement is gonna outrage Sly but it's 100% true - Duran got hit LESS at lightweight than Floyd did at lightweight.