Has Canelo improved?

This is what we have often debated before.

Some say that Canelo has already reached his prime: he has huge amount of fights and has fought the same way through his career.

Others point to his young age and maintain that he is still learning: he has perhaps reached his physical prime but has learned something about cutting off the ring and maintaining his balance.

How do you see it?

IMO, Canelo has clearly improved since facing Mosley or Trout. I am fully aware of that Cotto was stylistically a good opponent for him, but I thought Canelo was the better, more confident all-around fighter than before.

Also, he looked really strong against Cotto and very strong for a lt.middle - middle. Strength is on aspect that can develop for long, and I think Canelo is also stronger than he used to be.

Also, I think Canelo is still a work in progress. I'd say that he can still develop for a year or two. He will never be good enough to beat GGG or prime Floyd but the kid is taking his profession seriously

 

Marginally

 

I think he's improved but only incrementally. Pretty much what you'd expect with any fighter when gaining more experience from each fight.

 

Agreed with Whiskey.

I think he's more defensively responsible now than he was when he was 20-22 (although he still he ain't exactly Whitaker in there), and he obviously has a higher ring IQ now than he did when he was 20-22, but that naturally comes with better opposition and more experience.

He's not improving past this point. He's 25 years, the age that most guys with his style are at their ABSOLUTE primes. What we saw from him last night was peak/prime whatever you wanna call it version of Canelo.

He's always gonna be a plodder, and he's always gonna have an inconsistent workrate. His groupies keep waiting for this to change, but it never does and never will.

I do give him credit for showing some progression though. He has a brain in his head, unlike that fucking imbecile Khan who never showed any progression.

 

I see the same fighter I saw beat Shane Mosley. I would have always picked Canelo to virtually dominate Cotto.

Same thing with Cotto. Same fighter as the one who lost to Pacquiao, Trout and Mayweather. He beats Martinez (who in hindsight was ready to be taken anyway) and everyone thinks he's some born again fighter Baptized into the name of Freddie Roach.

Boxing fans are irritating...to say the least.

Styles makes FUCKING fights.

 

I think he's a BIT more refined now than he was against Shane only cause he's more experienced, but there's not a huge difference. He was 95% the same fighter then.

Cotto is a faded fighter. People tried to pretend like he wasn't. Tried to pretend like Roach had given him this fountain of youth drink, and I never bought it for a second.

Cotto's prime was 2007. What we saw last night was a faded (not shot, but faded) fighter beaten by a young, prime fighter.

 

If boxers do not improve after they turn 21 or so, I think trainers get paid way too much for 10+ of useless work

 

Boxing is unique to other sports because primes vary soooooo much.

Tyson, Donald Curry, Benitez, Vargas, and Meldrick Taylor are all examples of fighters who were at their peaks at 21-22.

Canelo is different because he didn't have any real amateur experience, so he was learning AS he was beating up no hopers in Guadalajara.

Meaning, he's improved since the guy we saw at 20 who fought Jose Cotto and Bumlomir.

But he's reached his plateau at 24-25. He's in his prime RIGHT NOW.

At 29, he's not gonna be the fighter he is now. If you think that, you're not understanding his style. Canelo is an offensive fighter and a lot of what he does really well is based on his youth and talent. Once that talent diminishes with age, he has certain physical limitations that are gonna make him ordinary. Those physical limitations include his lack of height, lack of reach, and lack of footspeed.

It'd be nice to imagine him aging well into his late 20s like a Chavez or Duran, but those guys had generational type talent that Ginger just wasn't born with.

He is what he is. A good fighter.

 

I'd like for you to explain how Canelo is gonna distinguish himself from Whitaker, Leonard, Hearns, DLH, Tito, Jones, Chavez, ect. Because ALLLL those guys were at their apex of ability at around 25.

 

I must admit, he has.

He showed some defense and slickness in there. Granted, against an aging warrior. But nonetheless, there are improvements in his game.

But I don't see Canelo lasting long mainly because he seems to be the type that blows up in weight BIG TIME between fights and that catches up very quickly.

Plus while has has some talent, it's not like he's EXCEPTIONALLY talented. If I were a match making consultant at Golden Boy, I would tell the powers that be there to NOT put Canelo in with Triple G at the moment. I'd have him fight guys at 154 that he'd have a better chance at beating, and then have him go up. Problem is, his weight isn't exactly under control.

 

Yes he has improved. He's a very good fighter. I cant wait to see him fight GGG

 

CLEARLY, Canelo's Improved...

REED's Debated this Point w/Some for the Last Year or 2 & it Always Puzzled REED why Some Automatically ASSumed Canelo was ALREADY as Good as he was Going to Get...Based on Dude's Age and Style, that NEVER Made a Lick of Sense to REED & What we Saw Last Night was EVIDENCE of an Improved Fighter...

Not Sure Why it BOTHERS Some Posters to ADMIT Canelo's Improved, but He HAS...



REED

 

if, If, IF Canelo's CURRENTLY in his Prime, he's @ the Very BEGINNING Of It...Meaning He Can Get Even BETTER in the Next 2-3 Years...




REED

 

Canelo Fought Shane Nearly 4 YEARS Ago...COMICAL to Think he HASN'T Improved Since Then, Brother Sly....




REED

 

It doesn't usually work that way.

Canelo's skill set at this point is about as polished as it's gonna get. There's never been a HUGE transformation in him. All his improvements have come with the natural progression of a once raw kid who gained experience against top fighters and became more polished.

Please feel free to point out to me any huge improvements. Cause as Whiskey said, they're incremental.

He's more defensively responsible now than he was at... say around the point when he beat Cintron.

But it's the same fighter last night that beat Angulo, fought Lara, and fought Kirkland.

Cotto is just a good style matchup for him, and I tried to tell you last night was the way the fight was most likely gonna play out.

Canelo's gotten bigger moreso than he's gotten better.

Just enjoy him for what he is, and don't go expecting this huge leap, cause you'll be disappointed.

 

The Mosley fight goes back to what I was saying about defense. He's tidied up his D a bit since the Mosley fight, but offensively he remains the same.

There's really not much precedent for a fighter who's been on the top level as long as Canelo making consider leaps AT THIS POINT. And this is what you and UGO aren't realizing.

And all of us have acknowledged that he HAS improved since he was 22-ish, but apparently you wanna hear what we see from him now is just the tip of the ice berg. It's not. This IS the ice berg, and has been for the last few fights.

 

It is hard to tell. To me he looked improved. It was the first fight where I thought damn his upper body movement is really good for a mexican. Same with his hand speed. Also I don't think that Cotto is a good style for him unless you think being three weight divisions smaller is a style thing.

 

He's improver at cutting weight. He was 179lbs in the ring

 

He has improved.....everyone already mention what he has improved..

-He's smarter fighter..I was waiting for him to jump on Cotto, giving Cotto the opportunity to land something hard(left hook to teh chin)..Canelo never did...
-Pacing...I guess this goes with the first one...he didn't rush anything..he didn't throw unnecessary/unlandable haymakers..
-As Neil said he has improved at cutting weight...a few fight at 155 he might create a new division.
-CANELO has definitely improved teh JAB...he did a good job at time of stopping whatever Offense Cotto try to mount with that single JAB...

 

Everyone saying he's improved are those who picked Cotto to win or thought Cotto may win. That's how you justify your picks...pretend as though Canelo has suddenly improved.

Fuckers.

 

He has improved....and coming in at 170-175 pound on fight night also helped....he showed more discipline vs. Cotto that he did vs. guys that were smaller/not world class/or past their primes like Josesito Lopez, Angulo and Mosley....

 

You guys here have always been reactionary.

Cotto losse to Mayweather and then Trout..he's washed up. He beats Martinez...he's reinvented himself, he's back. He loses to Canelo...he's small and old.

Canelo loses to Mayweather....he's a fat legged ginger. Canelo beats Cotto...he's IMPROVED.

Fuckers.

 

He has improved his defense and pacing....nothing that would help him against boxers like Lara or Mayweather....the improved JAB(if it's a real improvement n not a phantom) should help him against GGG.....

 

The jab's not really an improvement. He's always had a good jab.

Yall are acting like Canelo was Ricardo Mayorga before this fight. He's ALWAYS been a good, fluid offensive fighter.

The difference is he's become decent defensively. That's NOT to say he's got a great defense, but you can't just close your eyes and hit him like you can a Rios or Omar Figueroa.

 

Listen to you now!

Prior to this fight you were acting like he's Lemieux or some bum that can't box or deal with jabs...talking about how the Trout and Lara fights showed how limited he is etc.

Then you started to be unsure of picking him over Cotto.

Suddenly he's "ALWAYS been a good, fluid offensive fighter."..."He's always had a good jab.".

X you're my boy (although you wouldn't think it considering how much we disagree) but you're FULL OF SHIT!

 

How am I full of shit when I PICKED HIM TO WIN THE GODDAMN COTTO FIGHT BY STOPPAGE? Why would I pick him over Cotto if I DIDN'T think he was a good, fluid offensive fighter? It makes no sense.

Point out ONE time when I said LeMoo is more skilled than Nelo. ONE TIME. I never said it, cause it's not true. I said LeMoo is a bigger puncher than Nelo, and he IS. But he's definitely not as skilled, and not as durable.

 

I stand by what I said. Look back at the threads. You were saying that GGG would control Canelo with the jab even easier than lemieux...and your logic was that Canelo is shorter than lemieux. I said height isn't everything when it comes to boxing and Canelo is more dimensional than Lemieux and that would offset any minor height difference, and you countered that the Lara and Trout fights proved that Canelo was not. Look back and see, punk.

 

Based on how much time Canelo had to spend posing on the outside against stutter stepping lil Cotto I'd say GGG tears him up with the jab.

Canelo is strong and stocky but he doesn't like to get inside and muscle his opponents. He doesn't have the footwork or foot speed to stay inside if he wanted to. He wants to force his opponent to square up with him so he can unload. When he squares up with GGG he's squaring up with a rangier, more accurate puncher that has KO power.

The logical chance for a fighter like canelo against GGG is either to catch him with those stubby powerful paddy arms during an exchange or to pressure him and wear him down with his strength. Canelo not being able to come close to stopping a much smaller past prime fighter that's been stopped before, eating the past prime fighters stubby jabs, and then slowing to a crawl when you'd expect him to be revving up the engine just doesn't bode well against GGG.

For Canelo to have been super impressive to me he would've needed to blast out Cotto like we'd expect GGG to, especially after seeing the actual size difference in the ring.

 

THIS!!!!!

And that was the same point I made earlier.

Golov woulda killed Cotto. Like I mean literally, Mig woulda been on his way to the hospital. But afterwards, everybody woulda been saying "So what? Cotto was way too small for him."

Canelo goes the distance with him, and never SERIOUSLY hurts him, all while having a HUUGGEE size edge, and everybody's like "What a performance by Canelo."

It's hypocrisy.

Canelo showed N O T H I N G to suggest he can beat Golov. He's good enough to hang with Golov for a few rounds, but I'm begging for somebody to explain how he actually WINS.

Canelo's only chance is to wait a few years when Golov becomes to fade. He was no realistic chance of winning if they fight in 2016.

 

Canelo should have stopped Cotto and GGG would have, no doubt.

However....Foreman blasted out Frazier, TWICE and Ali struggled with Frazier three times. Ali and Foreman? We've done this to death many times.

Canelo is a tough fight for GGG, regardless. GGG should win...but he'll have to work hard for it.