Has Canelo improved?

youre amazed at the skills he showed out pointing an older smaller fighter. He won the fight basically by being bigger and winning rounds with a handful of heavier shots that couldn't take out the older smaller fighter.

He had trouble with Cotto's movement and couldn't sustain a pace down the stretch. Same fundamental problems.

 

Just like the Difference in Class btwn Cotto and Golovkin, as Witnessed by their Fights w/Daniel Geale???...




REED:kidcool:

 

Canelo-Lemieux would be a good fight...but it'll be a pointless fight for Canelo. GGG already dominated him so it's a no win situation for Canelo....far more risk than it is reward. Lemieux likely goes the distance with Canelo...but Canelo's body shots could force teh outcome sooner.

 

Pointless? It will prepare him for a fight GGG...Cotto didn't prepare him for it...fight against May, Lara, Trout haven't prepared him for GGG....bum ass punching bags like Kirkland and Angulo haven't prepared him for GGG....

If not Lemieux then who???? Kid chocolate? Lee?

 

Canelo ko Lemieux earlier than GGG imo. Lemieux would be more aggressive since he would be able to close the distance more easilly, which will only translate in more counterpunches opportunity for Canelo.
But, as said by D&M, it is a pointless fight for Canelo. Let Lemieux at least beat a good opponent, cause right now, everybody rebember how foolish he looked against GGG.

 

Okay nice....but if not Lemieux then who??? Lee? Kid Chocolate?

 

yeah, both would be better than Lemieux from Canelo point of view. Canelo can't win with the Lemieux fight. If he blows him away, so what, GGG made him look like a buffoon in his last fight. If he struggles a bit with him, everybody will say that it proves that GGG wil kill him. And if he loses to him (which won't happen) it would pretty much end his career as a serious fighter.

 

for me, alvarez beating golovkin would be a far bigger upset than holyfield beating tyson

 

You say that only with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, NO ONE expected Evander to even be competitive. Evan Fields had just been KO'd by Bowe and was looking like an old man with heart problems. Tyson was "uncaged" and was once again destroying everyone in his path.

Alvarez beating GGG wouldn't be anywhere near that level of upset.

 

i always favored holyfield over tyson, bet him in the first fight, was telling everyone he'd win. holyfield was a legendary fighter. to put alvarez in the same breath is disgraceful and disrespectful.

NO ONE ever got rid of holyfield in 3 rounds, so for people to think tyson would was foolish. the third bowe fight was a war, and bowe was 1 punch away from being KOd himself.

 

Like it or not..the Cotto fight prepared him for GGG. Cotto is as good as it gets in the middleweight division right now...with the exception of GGG and Canelo.

 

Evan Fields?

 

I'd have picked Tyson over Holy in the early 90's, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Mike lost A LOT in prison. His reflexes, quickness, and timing were never the same post-prison, and his stamina wasn't the same either. That AND Holy was physically stronger in 96 than he was in 91.

In the early 90s, it's not the same fight because Holy doesn't push Mike back as easily and doesn't have the same ring smarts. He would brawl with Tyson, and it'd be a mistake.

 

Is that YOU, Ron Borges???...





REEDointlaugh:

 

Holy in the early 90's was not on the kind of gear he later was.

 

From Wiki

"On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that is currently under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal steroids and human growth hormone (HGH). He denies ever using performance enhancers.[38]

Holyfield's name does not appear in the law enforcement documents reviewed. However, a patient by the name of "Evan Fields" caught investigators' attention. "Fields" shares the same birth date as Holyfield—October 19, 1962. The listed address for "Fields" was 794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga. 30213. Holyfield has a very similar address. When the phone number that, according to the documents, was associated with the "Fields" prescription, was dialed, Holyfield answered.[39]

On March 10, 2007 Holyfield made a public announcement that he would be pursuing his own investigation into the steroid claims in order to clear his name.[40]

Holyfield was again linked to HGH in September 2007, when his name came up following a raid of Signature Pharmacy in Orlando, Florida.[41] As of September 2007, Signature Pharmacy is under investigation for illegally supplying several professional athletes with steroids and HGH.[42]"

 

This! And he didn't have the same smarts and experience.

Anybody who thinks early 90's Holy weighing 205 coulda gone to war with Mike and won is fooling themselves. Mike woulda either stopped him, or won a UD.

 

Actually....I favoured Evander in 1991 when that mega fight was signed. 205 or not, Evander had the toughness, stamina and determination necessary to beat Tyson. In '96, I must admit I was nervous for Tyson but still picked him because my head said that Evander was washed up...but Holyfield would always have been Tyson's worst nightmare.

 

In the early 90s Holy was damn near stopped by Bert Cooper. It would NOT have been the same fight.

The pace Tyson fought at in the Ruddock fights, he wasn't capable of fighting at that pace post-prison. He was totally ineffective after 5 rounds post-prison.

 

Agreed....that post prison Tyson was a very different animal. Evender would not have dominated and stopped pre-prison Tyson. I'm saying that Evander may have won a decision.

Bert Cooper fight was telling...but you can't go by just the fact that Evander was rocked.

 

There's actually fours main versions of Tyson. 87-88 Tyson who could arguably beat any heavy in history. 91 Tyson who was still damn good but no longer peak, and 96 Tyson who was still capable of beating most guys, but vulnerable to greats at that point.

Then of course, starting in 99 you have washed up, one punch at a time Tyson.

Holy probably loses to 91 Tyson, but I think he has somewhat of a chance.

87-88 Tyson? No! Just no. I do not EVER see Holy beating that Tyson.

 

Tyson of '88 was a better fighter than Evander was, no doubt, but Evander always had the attributes to trouble him. I tend to agree though....that '86-'88 Tyson beats any version of Evander...and probably any heavyweight not named Muhammad Ali.

 

holyfield beat the dog shit out of cooper. and was back beating his ass that very same round 45 seconds after he was hurt. he had been inactive prior to that fight and cooper was a replacement who holyfield fought on one weeks notice. he didnt fight the same way he would have fought against tyson. when he was younger holyfield wouldve beat tyson by moving more than with physical strength as he did when they eventually fought.

 

There's a HUGE flaw with that strategy against young Tyson. Mike was too quick at closing the distance to move on.

 

I could be wrong, but the feeling I get is that in 91 Holy wanted a war with Tyson. He was tired of living in Mike's shadow, and wanted to beat his ass, so he woulda went to war with him.

I think that woulda produced an AWESOME action fight, but I think Tyson had too much firepower for Holy to win that war.

96, Holy is smarter. He still wants to kick Mike's ass, but he realizes he has to utilize a specific strategy to do so. So he pushes Mike back, and Mike by then is too slow on his feet to pivot around him.

 

Xplosive my brother...I still grieve over the fact that 1991 fight was cancelled. I maintain to this day that it would have been "Thriller in Manila" good.

 

For what it's worth I picked Holy and even bet money on him but I was always a fan of Evander since the '84 Olympics.

Yeah, I remember Ring Magazine predicting Tyson by KO1 because they thought Holyfield was past it and the convicted rapist was out of prison and supposedly on a tear. That was a sweet fight to watch. I was home on leave from the military and watched it with a bunch of Tyson groupies.

 

Buster Douglas would disagree.

Tyson was a mess and had a lot of personal problems in the early 90s. He was fortunate to come up at a time when the heavyweight division was very weak. His devastaing early KOs against a string of has beens and never was heavyweights earned him his reputation. Bonecrusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, James Tillis, Trevor Berbick, and ancient larry Holmes. And then blowing out a scared shitless Michael Spinks.

He never beat anyone like Evander Holyfield.

I thinky Holy would have whupped the rapist in '91, '96 or anytime in between.

 

Not as tellings as the Buster Douglas fight.

Unrelated and also from wiki:

Holyfield had an unusual late in life growth spurt. He graduated high school at 5'8" 147 lbs. At age 21 he represented the US at the '84 Olympics at light heavyweight. He was 6"0" 178 lbs. Between the ages of 21 and 25 he grew another 2.5 inches in height.

The strangest growth spurt I've heard was Dennis Rodman. He was 5'11" when he graduated high school. Went to some shit JC to play basketball and flunked out, Got a job at an airport and grew nine inches (to 6'8") in the next year. Got back into college ball and the rest is history.

 

He also had a similar growth spurt later on similar in nature to Barry Bonds'.