Most talented fighter that never acquired ATG status

You know me, I like to post the exact opposite of an existing topic. Lol

Anyway, I think this one leads to an even more interesting discussion. Which super talented fighters ( and I'm not just talking about hand speed and flash , you fucks, but serious talent) squandered that potential and never quite reached ATG status?

I'd venture Michael Second To Nunn

He's one of my favourite fighters of all time yet hasn't made the ATG list. Dude had it all at one point.

One could list Riddick Bowe I suppose

Who else?

 

Bowe couldn't slip the jab, and then there was the Lewis issue. His two wins over Golota are spurious.

Close, but no children or wife.

I would say Wlad, to be honest. All of the physicals. None of the greatness.

 

Wlad is a really good call actually.

 

I guess we can add Zab Judah to the list.

Terry Norris had all the physical gifts to be an all timer but his biggest weakness besides his chin was his lack of discipline when fighting. Hot head.

Hamed was incredibly gifted physically. He just didn't have any real fundamental skills. But he was athletic as hell with that combination of hand speed and KO power.

 

People forget that, although Sugar Ray Leonard was obviously going to be a huge star coming out of the '76 Olympics, boxing people were arguably just as ga-ga over the promise of Howard Davis... He was a good contender but never became a champ, much less an ATG fighter

Similarly, Mark Breland was the most talked-about of the excellent '84 US team, Freakishly tall for his division, a telephone pole jab, fast hands, terrific power, well-schooled but he was physically fragile, lacked the strength to match the size, simply lacked durability... He had a good career by the standards of a typical world-level fighter but compared to his lofty status as an amateur and all the hype that surrounded him as a pro, he was a major disappointment

Gypsy Joe Harris certainly had the look of a guy on the way to greatness but never achieved it (obviously, this was due to something totally out of his control, so I guess he doesn't really fit here)

Hector Camacho had all the talent you could want and skills to back it up but never came anywhere near achieving what was expected of him because he lacked the intangibles and enjoyed being a celebrity more than a fighter

 

Terry norris: Dude was as impressive as you can get, yet, he falled short of being an atg.

Davey hilton: maybe he didnt had the talent to be an atg, but he could have been so much more than what he achieved

Agree that Wlad might be the best call. Wonderfull skills and talents, yet lacked the intangibles to be a great fighter. In fact, it his a statement of his skills and talents that he managed to have such a good career, while being such a china-doll coward and quitter.

 

The man never quit or ran in his life. Be fair.

 

Fixed.

 

I know you refuse to acknowledge it, even if i told it to you a million times (even showed you where he makes no with his head), but he quitted against Brewster. And he also mentally quitted against Fury. Never said he ran though

 

Im really not a fan of Duran, but any rational person cant deny that he's an ATG

 

How did he quit against Brewster? He was exhausted and got KO'd

 

He didnt got koed. He barely got hit and laid on the floor for nothing. And when the ref comes to see him, he gives no indication of being willing to continue, and even makes no with his head. It is not the worst quit job ever, and i dont see quitting as such a hotrible thing to do, but it clearly showed a lack of fighting spirit.

 

Wlad is a funny one...dominant for so long but I wouldn't bet on him head-to-head against any of the prime greats or nearly greats of the past 50 years, while I would see a case for his brother, comes down to durability and poise under serious pressure

 

I hear you. What also is almost ridiculous is that I believe Wlad has gone the longest time in heavyweight history without being dropped while competing at world class level (over a decade) - and no, I am not suggesting anything besides it.

As for the question, some of the 1980s heavyweights might fit the description, Thomas, Page, Witherspoon and such. Jorge Luis Gonzalez was also blessed with huge physical talent, he just couldn't box nor cared to train

 

Which describes ALMOST every good fighter that ever left Cuba.

 

Wladimir achieved more...and was more skilled...but his brother was a better boxer...I like Vitali chances more against the all time great hvw than Wlad..

 

Not sure about that. VItaly was way tougher but showed his limitations against a few mid level boxers (Byrd, Chisora, even old man out of shape Sanders). HIm having a close fight against an old, unmotivated and out of shape Lennox is fairly impressive, but it is not enough for me to claim he was all that.

 

Vitaly is limited/less skilled than his brother but his intangibles(chin/stamina/exchanges/calmness in the ring) will serve him better against the all time great hvw.

He will definetely get dominated by ALI and Holmes jabs/boxing...but he will do better than his brother against the JOe Frazier/George FOreman/etc....

 

Vitali was less conventional than his brother, not less skilled... He was also way, way better and would've kicked his bitchass brother all over the ring ....

 

Head to head, yes he would, but I'm not sure he was better all around. Let's just say that Wlad was a lot more impressive against Byrd. And I'm not sure that Vitaly would have beaten Povetkin (or at the very least, as easilly). I must say that I'm not as high on Vitaly than most are. Dude pretty much beat no one worthwhile

 

vlad had more skills than Vitali no doubt. More natural talent without question. Vitali, though was much tougher and had more stamina and that is why Vitali would have beaten him. Kinda like Hearns vs Hagler: Hearns was faster, hit harder, better boxer....would beat some guys much easier than Hagler would as a result ( Duran) but head to head Hagler beats him every day if the week simply because he was much tougher and had more stamina.

 

wald pussy did not have more "skills", he just did things more the way you are "supposed" to... Vitali was far superior and never required blatant, cowardly cheating and stalling tactics to win fights, he just easily beat the shit out of his opponents... wald pussy had to rely on cheating, deplorable officiating and a division full of useless flotsam to be champ... wald pussy went life and death with caveman Sam Peter while Vitali tortured the guy and battered him... wld pussy nearly died trying to fight a fair fight against Corrie Sanders while Vitali pummeled him easily ... Vitali gave Lennox Lewis a terrific fight... wald pussy gave DaVarryl Williamson a terrific fight and lost in cowardly fashion to a guy pretending he could fight... fuck wald pussy

Vitali hit his opponents with ease while taking very little in return without cheating... Hit and don't get hit, that's the game... That's the SKILL...

 

yeah but Vitaly pretty much never fought anyone good (even the Lewis he fought was untrained and fat), so it was easy for him to look good. Against Byrd, which was the best fighter he fought besides fat ass Lewis, he looked like hot garbage. And I strongly disagree on him being more skilled. Dude was full of flaws technically. He made it work cause he was fast on his feet and had a good chin (and, for the fifth times, was fighting garbageman), but that doesn't make him better technically than Wlad, who is superb technically.

 

Nestor Garza

 

who said anything about "technically"? The word being used is "SKILLED"

Ronnie Harris was 10 times more technically superb than Muhammad Ali who had numerous technical "flaws" ... Who was more Skilled?

Vitali beat Byrd easily, that's why he was roasted so bad for quitting

 

This thread has Michael Nunn written all over it.

Nunn EASSILLYYYY possessed all the physical talent and skill to be an atg and a top 5 all time middleweight.

 

Word. I created this topic with Nunn in mind.

 

Fat Lewis is better than anyone Wlad faced. Vitali also beat the fuck out of one of the guys who beat the fuck out of Wlad, and pasted another guy who dropped Wlad twice in his first fight after a four year layoff. Vitali was clearly better IMO.

 

::

You need to put Vitalis name in here somewhere. Or else people will think Lewis had a 4 year layoff.

 

:: Good spot! Edited.