::::NBA:::: 2016-2017-2018 Season

we have been over this. no point in re-hashing my thoughts on the guys flaws. watch and see, he'll never ever win a championship because he is not good or efficient enough to be the main guy on a championship team, and he is unwilling to defer to better more efficient players.

 

Dude, Bibby was Wallowing in MEDIOCRITY and ANONYMITY in Vancouver, Until the Kings Traded White Chocolate for Him...If Bibby was All THAT, he'd Have Done SOMETHING Of Note in Vancouver, Yet he DIDN'T...

Bibby was ALWAYS a Good Shooter Though, When Placed in Situations Where he WASN'T the Focus of the Offense, So he Had GOOD, Clutch Moments in Sacramento BECAUSE of CWebb....But Make NO Mistake, if Webber Wasn't Getting 28 and 12, "Clutch" Shots Would have Been of NOfuckingCONSEQUENCE...

"Singlehandedly Carried OKC to 59 Wins and the WCF's"???...Yet ANOTHER Exaggeration...Westbrook PLAYED in Nearly 50 Regular Season Games AND He Played in the Playoffs that Year, Averaging 27, 7 and 8...But That DOESN'T Count, Right???...REED Can ASSURE You, Webber NEVER Had a Teammate THAT Productive in Sacramento...

Know Why People Debated Duncan vs. Webber???...Because when they PLAYED Head to Head, You COULDN'T Tell Who Was Supposedly "Better"...Ditto for Webber for Dirk...KG was the ONLY PF that Ever Got the Better of Webb, Consistently...Yes, Duncan WAS Better, But Again, When WATCHING Them on the Court TOGETHER, It Damn Sure Didn't Look Like It...

Duncan ACCOMPLISHED More, by a Sizable Margin, but Head to Head DIDN'T Reveal Superiority Either Way...And REED's CHALLENGING YOU to Watch Their Head to Head Games, if You Doubt This...




REED:hammert:

 

Durant Will Never EVER Win a Championship as the "Main Guy" on a Championship Team Either, Because he Flat Out REFUSES to Tweak His Game to the Degree that he's NOT Just a 6'11 PERIMETER Player...

Championship Teams NEED a 1-2 Punch MINIMUM, to Get it Done...Durant was IN That Situation...

Westbrook "Defers" to an 8ast Per Game Clip, for his Career...HIGHER Than That in Durant's Absence...Just Sayin'...






REED:hammert:

 

C-Webb was a better passer and rebounder than KD. Those are his only advantages.

KD's a better defender. Durant is by no means Scottie Pippen on D, but he's a decent defender. Webber was a horrible defender.

The offense gap is huge. Durant's gonna go down was one of the best scorers ever. C-Webb, despite his nice PPG in 01, was generally not an amazing scorer.

I don't agree that he was the most athletic PF until KG came along.

Barkley in his youth was INSANELY athletic for a dude his size. People forget that now since he's so fat.

But in the late 80s/early 90s Barkley had an extremely rare blend of excellent quickness, great strength and body control, and a great motor.

Karl Malone in his youth was also more athletic than Webber ever was. Malone could run the floor faster than a lot of guards, and was absurdly strong. And Shawn Kemp was more athletic than Webber.

And I'll stand by it. It's more than Durant's better.... Webber wasn't in his league. Webber's in the same tier as Blake Griffin, and nobody would ever say that Griffin's in Durant's league.

 

Sheed Never EVER Had the Slightest Bit of PRESSURE on Him...He was "The Man" on a Grand Total of ZERO Teams, a Glorified ROLE PLAYER...Didn't Even Start in Some Instances...

Sheed COULDN'T Even Be Relied Upon to Remain IN a Game, Playoff OR Regular Season, Yet You REALLY Want to Slight Webb for "Intangibles", Yet PRAISE Sheed in the Next Post???...

While You're Looking @ Webb's Stats, for Probably THE 1st Time Ever, Take a Gander @ Sheed's Too...The Gap btwn Durant and Webb is SMALLER than the Gap btwn Webb and Sheed, That's for DAMN Sure...




REED:mut:

 

i disagree. i think he will win a title as the main guy.

westbrooks assist totals are fools gold, to me. he has gotten better but he still doesnt really run a team well. he shoots a poor field goal percentage, has high turnovers for a point guard and a lot of his assists are the byproduct of him attacking constantly and kicking passes out as last resorts when he's bottled up and cant get a shot off.

 

Some of those SF's you listed over KD are a joke.

James Worthy? Cmonnnnn, I love the 80s/90s era NBA, but don't overrate some of these older era players.

James Worthy never peaked as high as KD. And I've watched ALLLLLLL of those significant 80s Lakers games. Worthy was a great secondary star and could really take over a game, but wasn't the type of guy who can carry a team by himself for an entire season.

Only three wing players from that era who were CLEARLY better than KD are Mike, Magic, and Bird.

 

For what it's worth, Westbrook is also much better than Webber ever was.

When I mention overrated guys, I usually add Dwight Howard in there, but I can't even compare him to Webber. Howard in his prime was a lot more dominant and impactful than C-Choke.

 

Sorry, but the Numbers Simply DO NOT Support the Notion of Durant Being a BETTER Defender...NEITHER Man was Ever a Lockdown Defender for his Position, Webber was a PF, Durant an SF, Yet Webber Averages MORE Steals and Blocks, for his Career...That Speaks VOLUMES...

There's Literally ZERO Evidence for Durant Being a BETTER Defender, NOT Even Statistically...

Barkley was an Athletic MARVEL, Because he was a SHORT, FAT Guy Who Played OUTSIDE the Realms of his Body...But Make NO Mistake, he was Never EVER as Athletic as Chris Webber...Yeah, Malone RAN the Floor Well, but So Did Webb...And in Terms of Elevation, There's NOfuckingCONTEST...

Kemp was Definitely MORE Athletic than Webb, but REED Said "Athletic AND Versatile"...For as Athletic as Kemp Was, he WASN'T the Least Bit Versatile...

For the 50th Time, REED's Fine w/People Saying Durant's BETTER than Chris Webber, but it Damn Sure AIN'T No Big Gap btwn Them...






REED:hammert:

 

That last sentence is ridiculous.

There's no gap between Webber and Wallace. When Wallace was actually focused, he was a better basketball player than C-Choke. Less FLASHY, but better and more effective.

Durant's closer to Wade and Kobe than he is to Webber.

Webber's not in the realm of any of those guys.

 

Even in 01, his best season, I don't see Webber as a top 5 player. I'd say all the following guys were better than him that year:

Shaq: By a HUUUUUGGGGEEE margin.
Kobe: Same.
Duncan
AI
Carter
KG
T-Mac

 

If you replace Bibby with Westbrook that kings team still would not have won a title

 

If I was starting a team from scratch back then I would take webber over Carter

 

I wouldn't.

That 01 Raptors team was PATHETIC minus Carter. Once T-Mac left for Orlando, Vince was surrounded by nothing but old men and scrubs. Yet he was one missed shot away from single handedly taking them past Philly into the ECF. That team might not have even made the playoffs if you replace Vince with Webber.

Carter's underrated. Young fans today watching his highlights will think he was only a dunker, but that's not the case. In 01 there was VERY little separation between Kobe and Carter. Kobe was better, but not by a big margin.

Oh speaking of which.... Carter vs Iverson in the 01 playoffs is still one of favorite duels in playoff history. Both guys were carrying their teams on their backs, trading 50-pt games.

Carter, like Webber, never had another season like 01.

 

I'm not a huge Bryant fan but what separated him from McGrady and especially Carter was heart and work ethic

There was also a big gap in ball handling ability between Carter and the other 2

 

Young Kobe would have fucking torched Westbrook. He absolutely OBLITERATED the Kings in that series, and Westbrook sure as shit wouldn't have been able to guard him either.

Whereas on the contrary, Kobe would have guarded Westbrook extremely well. He was a lock down defender back then.

 

I agree with both those statements. Neither Mac nor Vince wanted to be great nearly as bad as Kobe.

It's a bit more than just desire with T-Mac. Having a bum back ended his prime. That's not his fault.

 

Damn, this convo has me missing the era of wing players from the early 00s.

Kobe, Carter, AI, and T-Mac were all SOOOOOO exciting to watch.

Harden, KD, and Kawhi are all boring as Hell.

 

The way the raptors team was composed they may not have been as good if you directly replaced Carter with webber. Considering webber played the same position as their next most valuable player in Davis

Regardless webber made guys around him better, Carter didnt

 

The rules are different and the game is different. It has even filtered down to all levels of basketball, I've noticed

 

Clips opened up a 20+ point lead in the first quarter

 

Yeah, I know the game is different now. "Efficiency" and analytics has changed the way guys operate.

 

Is that what it is? The rule changes have just made it a more perimeter oriented game

 

Well, Durant has Taken HIMSELF Out of the "Main Guy" Discussion, by Going to Golden State...So WHEN is he Going to Be that Guy, and w/WHAT Team???...

He WAS the "Main Guy" in OKC, but Lacked the Stomach for the Fight and JOINED the Team he CHOKED Against...






REED:hammert:

 

He was the main guy at okc but the other guy didn't seem to realize that. Durant is still the best player on his current team

 

REED Named 6 Guys, and You're Bitching about 1???...




REED:hammert:

 

You're TROLLING Now...Dwight Howard BETTER than Chris Webber???...

Either You're HIGH as 3 Kites OR You Just DIDN'T Watch Chris Webber Play...Not CLOSELY, Anyways...





REED:hammert:

 

Of Course There's a Gap...Webber was THE MAN On Teams for 7/8ths of his Career, Whereas Sheed Never EVER Was...Hell, Sheed DIDN'T Even Start for a Lot of the Good Teams he was On...

Webber's Career #'s SHIT On Sheed's Too...And While Webber Might Not have Been the Most CLUTCH Performer, He Wasn't a NIGHTLY Candidate for EJECTION, the Way Sheed Was...

If You CAN'T Even Acknowledge Chris Webber is BETTER than Rasheed Wallace, You're a HATER or Straight Up IG'nant when it Comes to Basketball...REED has NEVER Heard Anyone State that Opinion...EVER...




REED:hammert:

 

Bron is the best and greatest SF of all time, and that's no longer a question. KD can never reach Lebron.

Bird is still 2nd it's gonna be extremely difficult for KD to pass Larry Legend. The three MVP's, the rings, and the fact that Bird was more than just a great scorer. He was a better passer than Durant could ever dream to be.

After that, there's no other SF that you can say Durant is clearly inferior to.

He needs like 2 rings and to look like the star of the team over Steph, and has the potential to one day go down as 3rd on the SF list.

 

Let's Not Forget, That was the "Donaghey" WCF's, Where the Lakers Shot MORE FT's than the Kings, Even Though Game 7 was In Sac-Town...

If the Kings BEAT the Shaq-Kobe Lakers that Year, the Face and DESTROY the New Jersey Nets in the Finals, Webber has a Ring, and his Career is Looked @ DRASTICALLY Different...





REED:hammert: