5 Best Fighters of the last 40 years

yeah, the guy was rather good, and I was a fan of him once upon a time, but he lost all my respect with the shameless ducking of Glenn Johnson of all people.

 

Cotto and Forrest were much much better than Robbed Reid and a million years old Hopkins.

 

Mosley was literally the anti-Calzaghe. Shane ducked NOBODY in his entire career, while Calz was highly protected until his mid 30s.

Shane's resume shits on Joe's, and moreover, prime Mosley was simply a better fighter than Joe.

 

I do t think Joe was ducking guys as much as Frank warren was, that guy was solely in the business of building and protecting little cashcows in the UK market and probably only acquiesced to pursuing the Kessler and hopkins fights because he knew calzaghe was winding down to retirement.

Hopkins didn't 'duck' calzaghe either btw. As I remember he turned down a multi fight showtime contract which included a calzaghe fight to chase the big bucks vs Oscar as any pro fighter would

 

Prime Mosley wasn't as good as you think. I was saying this, as you know, as far back as 2000...so it's not based on aging Mosley. Mosley was grossly overrated. People saw this likable guy with lighting fast hands and an exciting aggressive style and thought he was the complete fighter. He was always a spurt fighter with a weak if not non-existent jab, more of a slugger than anything else. Calzaghe was a much better fighter than Shane...far less limitations. Calzaghe could throw constantly for 12 rounds, while staying elusive and he had good power to both head and body. I worked out Shane very early....I knew Forrest would have beaten him. Shane barely got pass Wilfredo Rivera.

 

Then why do you criticize Floyd for fighting Oscar instead of Margarito (if you don't do that...I apologize) ?

 

It's the Mandella effect, I tell you.

 

IF you want to give Hopkins the benefit of the doubt and say he made a sensible business decision when pulling out of his agreement to fight Cokezaggy, that is fine. As long as it is (accurately) recorded that the reason why that fight did not happen until both were well past their best was because Hopkins not Cokeshaggy, torpedoed it.

Calzaghe almost certainly ducked Glen Johnson, mind. That one looks as clear as day.

I think Werren finally realised that he was over-protecting someone really good by the time the Kessler fight got made, and that is why it got made. I honestly think Frunk thought Lacy would smash Sheepshaggy up - that was the classic Frunk cash-out fight - and he was as surprised as almost everyone else when Joe embarassed him. Frunk realised then that he had wasted a potentially lucrative cashcow and immediately started chasing down the money-making fights.

MTF

 

One of the great things about the post-Oscar merrygoaround of 147 was the new-fangled American publicity machine whereby Oscar was venerated as sperm-milkshake lovechild of Sugar Ray Robinson and Carmen Basilio grafted onto a splice of Ray Leonards mitochondrial DNA.

Oscar was so good that, ignoring the shambles his genetic mutation into a running sloth vs Trinidad, that anyone who beat Oscar was suddenly Kid Gavilan and Johnny Saxton combined.

Mosley did just that, so that when he lost to an aging Vernon Forrest, a guy who hadn't been able, literally, to buy a title shot during the 1990's, it was natural that Vernon became Mount Vernon.

When he got bombed the fuck out by Mayorga, Mayorga suddenly became Jake La Mayorga.

In turn, we needed no introduction when Cory Spinks, a man whose DNA was actually derived from that of an actual fighter, turned the trick on Jake La Mayorga.

Spinks in turn fucked up the entire symmetry by losing to Zab Judah, presumably himself the modern day incarnation of King David, which is where Saul Alavarez comes in, I suppose.

 

Calzaghe is misrated by pretty much everyone on this board. Those who like him rate him a bit too highly - his resume is decent, but not much more. Those like Hut and McDoggy basically think he was a kangaroo with gloves on, which though often hilarious is equally false.

As is often the case, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Calzaghe was a very good and an ultimately dominant champion in a fairly weak division where he fought, and beat, most of those he should have but not all. In his most important fights he generally turned out his best performances and he adapted mid-fight on several occasions to win fights he could have lost. But his resume is too thin for him to be considered 'great' - in truth there is a very strong argument that Calzaghe's career has already been surpassed by Carl Froch, who had about a half of Calzaghe's ability but twice the courage and a vastly superior CV.

MTF

 

Agreed...........with one caveat. Much like a fight between Wlad and Vitali,we know who wins in a fight between Froch and Calzaghe....and it's not Fagin.

 

I'd have always backed Calzaghe to murder Froch. Speed is Froch's kryptonite - Ward hit him freely until he tired late on, Direll's unconscionable stink cause Froch bother and even Pascal hit Froch with plenty of shots. Calzaghe would have hit him and moved out of range before the Farmer got near him. It would have been the first seven rounds of Froch v Ward, but for 12: Calzaghe had an engine almost equal to that of Froch.

I'm a much bigger fan of Froch, and I do rate him 'greater' than Calzaghe historically, but aye, Froch would never have beaten Joe.

MTF

 

Calz would have beaten Froch clearly, but "murder" is a big exaggeration. Froch would have had his moments, and landed his share of big shots. But ultimately, he'd be too slow.

 

Froch wouldn't land shit. As you (correctly) say, he's too slow.

MTF

 

Froch was a helluva lot better than Lacy, and Calzaghe was not Whitaker. He got hit... by FAR lesser fighters than Froch.

Froch WOULD land.

 

Froch was unbelievably slow. He must have been one of the slowest-handed elite fighters in the history of elite fighters. The only thing more amusing than watching Froch throw one of his trademark lead uppercuts is the fact that he thought, genuinely thought, he was as fast as a prime RJJ ::

Froch was by far a better fighter than Lacy. But I doubt he was faster. And Lacy never laid a hand on Calzaghe. Froch is slower than a prime Kessler, and he landed less than half a dozen proper, hurtful shots on Calzaghe in twelve rounds.

MTF

 

I don't think Cotto was better than even an old Hopkins, certainly not 'much much'. Also, Forrest's legacy here is based on circular evidence: he is respected because he beat Mosley, Mosley's loss to him isn't that big a deal because he lost to a respected fighter. Remove Mosley bouts from Forrest's record and there is very little left

 

Froch was quicker and more athletic than Lacy. Which really ain't saying much, but Lacy was one of the slowest, and most unathletic fighters of all time. He was getting beat to the punch by Omar Sheika for Christ sake.

Froch was more awkward than Kessler, although I would say prime Kessler was the better fighter. Froch also had more "not give a fuck" in him than Kessler, and would let his hands more, even if it meant getting countered. Kessler, was always a fan, but the Dane definitely had some "give" in him.

 

on his ass

 

Calzaghe would embarrass Froch

 

Yep. Froch was faster than a fucking pyramid during the last ice-age.

Froch's A game was taking the heart of lesser men.

Only one problem is that Calzaghe isn't that man.

Calzaghe was a big hard SOB and a mean cunt to boot.

 

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Calzaghe's control of distance, ability to turn and create angles for himself - plus the obvious difference in speed and workrate, would be far too much for Froch.

 

:froch being an elite fighter

 

For Christ Sake, I'm not saying Froch wins!

I just don't think it'd be a whitewash.

Joe 8-4 or 9-3 sounds about right. Most likely 9-3. But that's still a FEW rounds that Froch finds success.

 

Calzaghe was brilliant. As you said, his ability to create distance and turn his opponents and create angles for himself, not to mention speed and workrate...made him a nightmare for opponents.

 

:: ,......:crafty:

 

A man who routinely shits on Roberto Duran, yet considers Joe Calzaghe "brilliant".

Unfuckingbelievable.

 

. Froch is a very live dog against Calzaghe, and probably beats him

 

Pascal is a quick fighter, and guys like Bute and Diaconu, who were no slouch speed wise, coulnd't land shit on him. Yet Froch was hitting him at will. Timing and a jab trump speed most of the time.

The funny thing is that Pascal, who is a nothing special fighter, pretty much equalised the biggest accomplishment of Calzagher career (he should have gotten the dec, since a legit KD wasn't called). But for some, Calzaghe is a legend while Pascal is a bum ::