All time great fighters, that could have NEVER beaten another fighter based on styles

So you see no difference between the Lewis from the first fight and the one from the second?

By the way, you really think Holy is that dumb? You make it seem like he has no mind.

 

LMAOOO!!!

 

It's an interesting debate, and one that I can't really call.

Holyfield was viewed as washed up when they fought in 1996 and had a lot of mileage on him. He was smart though, and said he learned from the Bowe fights, especially the 3rd, to be more controlled in his aggression. He fought an smart fight against Tyson, holding a lot and doing so well in the clinches, pushing Tyson around. He was definitely bigger and stronger in 1996.

1991 Holyfield wasn't as big and strong, and was more brawl-happy. He was obviously quicker of hand and foot in 1991 though, better overall, although perhaps not better specifically for Tyson. Tyson was pretty sloppy defensively against Ruddock in the rematch, and looking so much for bombs. However, he showed a vicious body attack in both Ruddock fights, and I always thought Holyfield was rather vulnerable to body shots. Numerous guys doubled him over momentarily, or straight up weakened up (Bowe), to the body.

Then part of me thinks Holyfield always would have raised his game for Tyson, and had his number. So that one is 50/50.

As for Lewis, I think prime Lewis always beats prime Holyfield. Holyfield did better in the rematch, taking 4 rounds IMO, but Lewis's size, jab, right hand power, strength, etc..would always be too much for Evander.

 

I doubt Cotto beats early 00s Mosley. Prime Cotto barely got by a 36 year old Mosley in 2007, Cotto won 7 rounds to 5. And it wasn't like a case where I saw Cotto underperforming. He was just slightly better than that version of Mosley.

Cotto is no DLH in boxing skills or physical gifts (height, reach, speed, etc..), and DLH had all kinds of hell with Mosley. Lost the first time clearly, and even in the 2nd match, when he allegedly gave Shane a boxing lesson, DLH was missing a lot, only for Lampley and Compubox to act like they were flush shots right on Mosley's jaw. Okay, Mosley was BALCO'd up, but never looked impressive at 154, and this fight was no exception.

Cotto being more technically and fundamentally sound would only get him so far, as Mosley was just a lot more talented.

 

Mosley didn't know how to box and had a horrendously useless jab. He also fought in spurts. Shane needed sluggers or guys devoid of top level boxing skill in order to look good. Very overrated fighter. Hilariously overrated in fact

 

Wlad vs tyson.

 

We're talking to a man who was once convinced that Ricardo Mayorga would give Mosley a career ending beating.

His opinion of Shane is not to be taken seriously.

Saying Miguel Cotto was a better fighter than Mosley is an asinine statement.

 

I actually picked Mayorga over Mosley too.

I had a feeling Mosley was going to turn into a shot fighter overnight.

But luckily he didn't and later gave Plasterito a vicious beating.

 

Mayorga gave a hell of a fight to Mosley, it's not tat bad of a pick

 

I never said "career ending beating" but I stand behind my position that pre Trinidad mayorga would have beaten any version of Shane. Shane simply wasn't as good as people think. I thought Forrest fight would have exposed that but it seems as though Shane built a loyal cult that would go to their graves believing he was the second coming of ray Robinson

 

Mayorga actually had the perfect style for Shane to always SHINE against... Slower guy with no defense and a lot of bravado. Mosley beats him and Margarito to a pulp in his prime.

2000 Mosley was a better fighter than Cotto. If anyone was really overrated, it was Cotto. He would have been just a name in the 90s era of welterweights and junior middleweights.

 

Mosley really wasn't as good as people think. He had excellent speed and great pop but he was outboxed on many occasions, and often not just outboxed but completely shut down and whitewashed. His attributes meant that he was always dangerous, and if he was matched against the right fighter he could look absolutely sensational, but looking at his career as a whole I think he gets way too much credit.

 

At 135 Mosley was virtually unbeatable. But that was speed and size. He could not be denied. But at 147, which is closer to his natural weight, I agree his lack of craft was obvious.

 

He was still a considerably better fighter in his prime than Cotto.

 

Cotto would have beat down Rivera, wise, Diaz, Taylor and stone as well.

Aside from oscar ( who fought like an idiot that night) Shane didn't beat anyone worth a damn.

Having said all of that though, Shane was tougher than cotto and faster handed. Cotto was a better boxer though and smarter

 

I'd say Cotto had a better jab than Mosley. That's literally the only facet of boxing he was better at.

Smarter? No, I don't see it. I've never considered Cotto's ring IQ to be particularly high. He wasn't a ring retard like Khan, Berto, Broner, ect, but I've never viewed him as a particularly intelligent fighter.

 

I think a prime Mosley's physical advantages would have been tough for Cotto to overcome. The hand speed, physical strength, and the power. The body punching would have taken a toll. Plus the fact, that Mosley could take Cotto's punches and not suffer any ill effects, would play a major role, seeing as both would get hit.

Can't see Cotto replicating what Forrest did. He had a lot of problems with an older Mosley. A younger Mosley I'm sure beats him.

 

Since we're talking about Mosley, it's pretty obvious he was never beating Forrest. 0-3.

 

Wouldn't agree with that tbh. The second fight was close and mosley was as jittery as a baby fowl for a long period after that first fight. I'd go as far as to say if you replayed the first fight - which hinged on a clash of heads and hailmary shot immediately afterwards- 10 times mosley would win at least half of them and you might never get such a clear a forrest win again.

 

The second fight was closeR, if only because the first fight was so one-sided. It was still a clear win for Forrest. I'll concede the clash of heads point from the first fight though, it was a bad one for sure.

 

What about Mayweather vs a prime De La Hoya??

Floyd pulled off a close decision win against an old, semi retired Oscar. Would that hold true against a 97-99 Oscar?

 

It's a weird one, personally I think Floyd would always win but it would always be close or close-ish.

 

Lewis always beats Holyfield. This thing about the second fight being some razor-tight decision that could have gone either way is bollocks.

 

Mayweather always beats Pacquiao. Manny had slipped more than Floyd from 2010 to 2015, but I envision the same type of fight happening in 2010, only at a faster pace and a better fight overall.

 

I think Manny had a legit shot in 2009. I would have marginally favoured Floyd back then as well, being honest, but Pac had a great chance of winning around that time.

 

I used to think Floyd would always beat Oscar but after watching their fight again, it was closer than I initially thought and I saw a lot of things Oscar did that causes Floyd more problems than he'd ever admit. His fans too. It's close, but I slightly lean towards Oscar.

And yes, there is NO VERSION of Holyfield that beats Lewis. Even the 92 Lewis IMO because Holyfield just gets hit too much. Especially in that early 90s time before the steroids.

 

I think Floyd always beats Manny as well but it would have been a much better fight in 2010. Floyd was too spooked at the time and it wasn't only until he saw enough vulnerability that he took the fight.

 

Floyd DOES NOT Go 10 for 10 Against the Version of Pac that Iced Hatton and Beat the Brakes Off Cotto...




REED

 

Oh yes he does. Pacquiao won based on activity. Floyds style reduces the punch output of every opponent he's ever faced. A pacquiao without high punch output is like a lion without teeth.

 

I tell you what else reduced pac's output - fucking AGE. Take the floyd fight out the sums and he was still averaging 30 punches a round less in 2014-16 than in 08-11