If Marciano can't possibly hurt Norton (according to some here) then no way Frazier hurts Vitali, I'm assuming. Size difference between Vitali and Frazier is even bigger than between Marciano and Norton...and Vitali has a notably better chin than Norton. Anyway...that aside....Vitali would win on size difference alone. He'll smother the attack up close and keep Frazier at a distance for the most part. He'll drop Frazier at least twice, Frazier would never hurt him and hardly land the left hook to the head... and that would secure a UD if it goes the distance
Frazier is probably too small. But then, seeing how shitty ass Byrd troubled Vitaly with some bobbing and weaving, Frazier might surprised us
I question if Vitali would have the stamina to keep up with Joe's pace. He was blowing and sucking major wind after the Corrie Sanders fight.
This one has been done to death on here, and I've always picked Joe before, and do so again. I think he'd take Vitali's body apart and I don't think Vitali has the mobility, uppercuts or power to keep him off long enough. MTF
Frazier's defense is extremely underrated. People will have you believing Frazier was Brandon Rios in there, when the truth is, he effectively slipped a lot of punches.
Frasier is the most underrated ATG fighter on this board. Period. He seems to lose every MM he is ever slated for, despite being, well, excellent. MTF
I agree. He always does poorly on MMs. 68-71 Frazier was awesome. I think he matches up badly against Lewis, Louis, and Tyson, but matches up well against virtually everyone else.
The problem with frazier, is that he was a very very small hw. Not even 6 feet tall and not muscular a la tyson to compensate. Guy was excellent, but it's hard to see him beat some of the gigantic hw. Especially considering how he fared against foreman
Some points. Frazier was definitely a 'small' HW compared to the superheavies of today BUT he would also be a shit ton faster than anything Vitali had ever seen. And not just fast, but very strong and powerful relative to his size. His left hook was good enough to knock Ali, who had one of the ATG chins, halfway through the floor. Also, equally importantly, Joe was never really a head-hunter. He loved to chop down his opponents with one of the greatest body-attacks in history. It's true that he would struggle to find Vitali's chin early through sheer size, but after seven or eight rounds of his relentless, weaving body attack, I reckon that chin would be coming down inch by inch. Obviously the Foreman fight is the one you look at when comparing how Joe might fare against 'huge' heavies, but Foreman was nowt like Vitali. The blueprint Foreman showed for beating Joe wasn't really size, but that Joe could be undone by ferocious power behind the uppercut. His bobbing, weaving style was useless against that punch. Vitali was an arm puncher, and although he could throw the uppercut, it wasn't really a strong part of his armoury. All of that is, in a nutshell, why I think Joe matches up well against Vitali and beats him. Tyson, who had a prodigious uppercut, or Lewis, who threw the punch less but unload it with shuddering effect when he chose to, are different stories IMO. MTF
The guy has a legit win over a nearish-prime Ali and yet he loses to everyone I see him matched up against. Only Foreman, who was basically the perfect genetic style to beat Joe up, every really did so. MTF
Very much agreed on Frazier being underrated. Foreman was just a horrible style matchup. Agreed on his defense too, you only have to watch him Vs prime Ali to know how good his defense was.
Well, if you put Frazier in the divsion today, regardless of size, he goes to prison for 1st degree murder if he fought Wilder.
Surprisingly enough, I pick Vitaly. I think the usage of his left hand is the key to victory here, as he would keep Joe off balance
I see Vitali in control early with his size and range, but as Joe starts to get closer and get into that body, there's just no way Vitali won't start to slow down. Those punches are gonna hurt him. And I'm not so certain he'll be able to find Joe consistently, who's bobbing and weaving style would present a difficult target for Vitali. I see a close decision. Barring injury, Vitali shouldn't quit, but I do think in a long war, Joe might just be able to bring a little bit of give out of Klitschko. Could se it going either way, but i lean towards a close decision win for Frazier.
Well, if Frazier's speed, stamina and strength are enough to overcome way bigger foes, the clumsy kid who outweighed him by about ten pounds shouldn't be a problem.
But styles make fights. Vitali ain't like Foreman. George was a master at uppercuts. Vitali threw them here and there but not with the brutal power that Foreman did, more the frequency.
Hardly. Vitaly looked like a guy who was easy to land on, but it took Lewis' laces to cut him. Vitali's use of distance and activity would make it very difficult for George to get close, even though Vitaly wouldn't hurt him
I think it would turn into a slug fest. Vitali wouldn't be able to keep Foreman away for long. It would sooner rather than later turn into a fight. Question is, how much could Vitali take?
Vitali's abilities and skills are always grossly overrated. 70s Foreman would have pounded him and forced a stoppage.
Vitali is strangely both underrated and overrated at the same time. His detractors act like he's a bum, and his supporters have him as one of the top heavies of all time. He was very good, and a tough match for almost anyone, but I don't see him beating the best heavies of all time.
