I’m torn on Wilder vs Ortiz

Billy Joe Saunders is growing on me, and I might actually start rooting for him against any middleweight.

I think he won me over after Eubank-Groves when he said "Chris, I have a new job for you. You can come clean my balls."

 

I suspect one day he'll end up like Harold Shand did in Long Good Friday.

 

Mayorga actually had some pretty good smack talk as well.

 

Duran-Mayorga would be an entertaining matchup purely for the pre-fight trash talk.

Of course, the fight itself wouldn't be competitive, but the press conferences would be fun.

 

This...

Shit Tak/Arrogance is Only a Deal Breaker if the Fan DISLIKES a Particular Fighter...

Larry Mechant HATED Mouthy, Egotistical Fighters Generally, Yet GIDDILY Lit Cigarettes For Ricardo Mayorga During Post Fight Interviews...He Also Got a Kick Out of Prince Naseem.

“Money May” Fans Like Him BECAUSE of his Arrogance, Yet Brothers were Up in Arms as Conor McGregor OWNED Him on Each Stop of their Press Tour...

Among Other Factors, REED Dug Roy Jones’ SWAG, His Self Confidence...Yet Antonio Tarver’s Self Belief and Shit Talk (Coupled w/KO’ing Roy) Rubs REED the Wrong Way to This Day...

Mike Tyson’s as Beloved as Any Fighter in History, so Any Current Fighter Besmirching His Name Will Be FROWNED Upon...

It All Depends on the Shit Talking Fighter and a Fan’s Feelings Toward That Fighter...







REED

 

yeah, I find McGregor trash talking wholly unimaginative and forced

 

That's a really good point, but it's also not the only reason why we like or dislike some trashtalkers. For example, I was a semi fan of Sonnen when he was in Bodog, and I thought his trashtalk was pretty good. But when he went in the UFC and started doing his contrived bs, I was rooting hard against him.

 

Naz, I thought also said a lot of tongue in cheek type of things and he did make me crack me up with his antics. That said, Naz also had a natural charisma to him. Other than the McCullough situation, I would agree that Naz for the most part kept things light and humorous. Nothing much beyond the whole "I'm the best, I'm gonna knock you out." etc.

This is where somebody like Floyd never did it for me. Don't get me wrong, an all time great fighter. But he had the personality of a door knob and no kind of humor. Never once did Floyd ever say anything funny. He just came off very extra with everything. A true try hard. His whole "Money" image was super corny.

Wilder is in a similar vein in that he's clearly trying VERY HARD to be a villain, and going the extra mile. To the point where he's saying something blasphemous about being able to beat a prime Tyson. AJ, despite his quiet cockiness actually RECOGNIZED that a young Mike would have destroyed him. And it's not even about Wilder saying he could beat Tyson. Again, the extraness to it. Saying he'd DESTROY Mike. I mean, come on. He can't expect anyone to take him seriously. It's clear that Wilder is just trying to play up the villain role in hopes of getting enough notoriety to land a fight with AJ, even if it means saying the dumbest shit anyone could think.

I just find it annoying.

 

May weather was a terrible trash talker. Most of the reason is because he’s not a good speaker to begin with. Truthfully he was never one for much trash talking anyway.

 

I have the same feelings towards Tarver as REED has and for the same reasons but I have to say the guy did have the gift of the gab. Also, in hindsight his prefight “what excuses are you going to have tonight Roy?” was one of the best pieces of smack talk ever.

 

Tarver could talk some smack. I didn't like him, but Milkdud did have some personality to him.

 

Can't wait for this.

 

Has the weigh in happened as yet?

 

I'll say this much... this is a better matchup than Joshua-Parker. Because an argument can be made Ortiz KOing this goof.

I don't see how Parker beats AJ.

 

It's a far more interesting matchup than Parker AJ BUT I can see Parker beating AJ...IF Parker's chin is as good as the hype and if he can avoid AJ's punches.

 

If Ortiz can take Wilder's best punch, it's game over. Wilder will have no chance.

 

Parker's hand speed will trouble AJ for sure. But he doesn't punch hard enough to deter him. AJ would be best served to come in light and lean. 255 is too much. I'd like to see him in the 240s.

Wilder's chance against Ortiz is mainly his power. What this comes down to is Ortiz being quick and sharp enough to pull the trigger when Wilder presents him with those counter punching opportunities. If he is, I don't see Wilder winning this.

 

This card would have been quality if Charlo-Centeno didn't fall apart. Now the undercard is washed up Andre Dirrell vs that Usctabum.

 

Ortiz doesn't really drop rounds. Wilder was dropping rounds to Washington, Spzillka and Molina and his power bailed him out. He's also been shaken and dropped too in the pros. Ortiz seems to have a solid chin (although he was dropped and hurt as an amateur) and good power. I think Ortiz might possibly win this going away, although Wilder's power is serious.

If Wilder wins in impressive fashion I will have no qualms at making him #1 in the division, as Ortiz is much better than Parker imo.

 

Wilder weighs 215. Wow!

So at least if he KO's Ortiz it'll prove that the "super heavyweight" myth is a joke.

 

I wouldn't say so. First of all, we don't know how good Ortiz is.

Secondly, one successful guy doesn't change the trend. Apart from Roy, we haven't had -200 lbs contenders since the 80s and I have hard time believing it would all be because nobody trains anymore.

Physically, Wilder might be the Arguello of the heavyweight (no, not in the same class). However I agree it is interesting that such a thin guy competes at heavy

 

241 seems to be typical for Ortiz. Wilder at 214 surprises me since he appears comfortable at 225.

As for appearances, Wilder being extra, as usual. Ortiz does appear relaxed and confident. Means nothing, but it is worth pointing out, I think.

I still got Ortiz. Early to mid rounds. Wilder's wild swinging will cost him here against a southpaw with good counter punching skills.

 

215!!!!

Wilder probably should gain a bit of weight. This seems too light for a guy his size. But as you say, maybe he knows something that we don't

 

Obviously, I'm not talking about -200 guys.

My point is - prime Ali was 210-215.

Prime Holmes was 210-215.

Prime Tyson was 215-220.

Prime Foreman was 217-225.

Those guys would still dominate today at those weights.

 

I am not sure about that with all of them but I get your point, and it is a good one. Even though men have grown, most of the very best have always been in the range from 200-220.

The obvious exception is Lennox and I do believe that at some point there will be a time where guys under 230 lbs won't be competitive, but I do agree it is not yet.

I just disagree with the fact that this fight would tell much about that, since Wilder obviously wouldn't beat Lennox or Bowe, even if he KOs Ortiz

 

Nope. I don't ever see it being that way. History thus far has told that most these truly BIG heavyweights (weight wise) are shit.

Guys under 230 w/the talent or power to do so, will ALWAYS ALWAYS compete in the division.

There was once a time when many believed that the division would be ruled by a bunch of guys who are 6'9, 270... but that's just unrealistic. Guys that size can't fuckin fight, period.

Even the Klits in the prime were weighing in the 240s.

Bowe, on the best night of his life, the first Holy fight, weighed 235.

 

Maybe in a hundred years they will, but not any time soon. Even the few at the size who can fight a bit can't do it for long. It's one thing to be the champion, it's another to rule a division.

 

You fellas are so fixated on weight. Weight is only an indicator of size...but size and weight are not necessarily the same thing. Wilder is a BIG man make no mistake. He’s a bigger man than David Tua or Mike Tyson even if they may have weighed more than him on average. The weight divisions are a way of controlling SIZE by means of weight but weight by itself is meaningless. If I stuff myself with chocolate chip bagels three times a day for the next three months I’ll weigh 250lbs. That wouldnt make me “bigger “ than Wilder.

Wilder is a big man with low body fat percentage that’s all. Power isn’t correlated with fat, it’s correlated with size (skeletal).

Naseem Hamed doesn’t punch any harder now than he did when he weighed 126.

That’s why I keep posting here. I need to educate you cunts

 

Ortiz is fat

 

Wilder is only a pound heavier than Bellend