Pacquiao looks like a top 10 talent against left-hand dominant guys. DLH would fall into that category. Of course, the game changes if DLH weighs-in with a kitchen sink up his ass
De La Hoya kicks his ass. I don’t think Floyd or PAC would’ve moved up to those divisions if guys like prime Oscar, Trinidad and Mosley were around. I don’t think they would’ve been expected to either.
PAC seems fearless to me so don't know why you think so. I would have never expected Manny to fight guys like Cotto,Margarito and Hatton but he did. He also took on De La Hoya which I thought was a CRAZY fight for him. In hindsight we can all say that Oscar was shot blah blah.....but we mustn't forget that before the fight the general consensus was that Oscar was going to mismatch him based on size alone.
Agreed. Sure it wasn't prime DLH in there, but the way Pacquiao absolutey butchered him makes me think he would always be a nightmare for DLH.
I suspect that Pacquiao would have been a nightmare for many welterweights in history. People on this board and boxing fans in general wouldn't want to admit this because a) pacquiaso is a former flyweight and b) he had trouble with Marquez and c) he lost to Floyd....but the fact is his style and abilities means he would have surprised a lot of great welterweights...with his freakish speed, workrate and stamina, especially as it was coming from a southpaw stance with good power.
I never rated Manny much as a welterweight. I doubt he could beat any of the 80s or even 90s club of top 147-154 pounders.
Calling him shot is absurd. He looked good/decent in his last few fights. Using the weightdrained to explain his performance is much more credible
You only don’t rate him as a welterweight because you remember him first as a featherweight and in your mind a former featherweight could NEVER compete at welterweight with the great welterweights of the past. That’s the psychology that’s working on you and I completely understand. However there’s NATHAN (copyright REED) in his actual fights there to suggest that Manny was a mediocre welterweight let alone a poor one. JMM simply had the style to give him fits but Manny showed true greatness even at that weight.
LOL decent? Last few fights? I know you just have to be a contrarian and nobody's ever shot in your book but this is a guy that looked like he could barely put two punches together against Steve Forbes, a career 130 pounder at 150 pounds In the ring for the Pacquaio fight, he couldn't pull the trigger, he was visibly, obviously physically weak and his reflexes were gone ... he was the very picture of a shot fighter
Cotto and Margarito were decent fighters and Margarito was HUGE....and Manny wiped them out in one sided fashion. Same with Clottey. Cotto went on to stop Martinez at Middleweight, the same Martinez who beat Pavlik and knocked Williams the fuck out! The same cotto who had a competitive fight with Canelo, the same Canelo who fought GGG to a draw. I know you won’t appreciate how I’m stringing these matchups together but the fact is that Cotto was a decent welterweight and Manny dominated him. Therefore the Beating of De La Hoya was no fluke flash in the pan. It would take a very good welterweight to beat Pacquiao. I don’t see guys like quartey, honeyghan or even marlin starling beating Pacquiao. I doubt fragile curry would either. No it would have taken Leonard and Hearns level talents to beat him....possibly Duran and possibly Benitez.
"I know you won’t appreciate how I’m stringing these matchups together" Hmmmmm, because it's fallacy? Cotto and Margarito both made to drop down in weight like DLH, btw
Anybody that thinks it would take Leonard or Hearns to beat Pacquaio at 147 when an old featherweight on steroids turned the trick is past being worth talking to
That’s like saying anyone who says Duran was a good fighter above lightweight when Kirkland Laing beat him is past being worth talking to. Everyone has a bogeyman. Should we move George Foreman out of the top 10 because he lost to jimmy Young?
Kirkland Laing is relevant here. Many great fighters have lost to a mediocre fighters. If you don't like the Laing bidness then Lewis was cold cocked by Rahman for example. Tyson was knocked out by Douglas. Thing is though that Marquez wasn't even a mediocre fighter...JMM was a great talent in his own right.
Shot to shit, he was doing Coke, he was a walking skeleton, old, take your pick. Sly does these threads with the Big Book Of Side-Agenda Blackness wedged so far up his keister he can barely fit his boyfriends cock.
I'd still favor Manny - a speedy southpaw with two-fisted firepower would be a nightmare for DLH at any weight IMO.
I think equal or greater criticism could be leveled at DLH's WW tenure than Manny's. All of DLH's big fights at the weight - Whitaker, Quartey, Tito, Mosley - ended as either losses and/or indecisive and controversial decisions. He never destroyed a top opponent at the weight the way Manny did with Cotto.
