Witherspoon on his A-game would beat Wilder imo. I'd make Wilder a favorite over the other three... although he probably struggles with all of them. I highly doubt he destroys them with ease the way Mike did.
He's got a punchers chance against the chinny Williams I think the other three would beat him especially Witherspoon and Thomas at their bests who would both beat his ass
Pinklon Thomas had a good chin but he’d lose nevertheless. Witherspoon had too much for Wilder though...
You guys act like berbick and thomas aren't every bit as "scrubby," if not more than the guys around today.
Pinklon Thomas at his absolute best was an excellent boxer with a fantastic jab ... I assume in mythical matchups we are taking the best version of a fighter Please point out to me a current heavyweight that looks like Thomas did vs Tim Witherspoon... I'd love to watch him ...
That's not the point at all. Point isn't whether or not Wilder is better than Thomas. Point is, Thomas and others from his period are not in some other league than the guys fighting today. Sure. You could argue there's nobody as good as Holmes right now. And definitely not Tyson. But the Berbicks and Thomas's of the world? The current division has plenty.
Yes obviously... why do you think I responded that way ... if you're seriously comparing him with Thomas, we've got zilch to talk about... he's a fat fuck fighting at 1/3 the pace
Yes they are... the fact that you actually think fat fuck Miller is in that class says it all "You could argue that there's nobody as good as Holmes right now" ... this is either willful blindness or a staggering inability to understand what you're watching ... Larry Holmes would be untouchable in this era... unfuckingtouchable
Nonsense. Holmes was great, but these guys are not THAT much worse than Snipes, Weaver, Bonecrusher, Williams, Berbick etc. who all tagged Holmes and could give him a fight for his money. Did you really think that Povetkin vs Joshua had no skill nor talent included? In my opinion, while it wasn't special by any means, it was a good paced battle and comparable to most of Holmes' title defenses
At some point Ugo, being the forum contrarian simply gets played out. Prime Holmes is not losing to Wilder, AJ, and Fury.
Thomas was really good before he snorted his career up his nose. I could see him boxing Wilder's ears off but getting stopped by one of those wild ass bombs. I'd lean Thomas but could see Wilder winning his share. Spoon beats Wilder. I can't see a way Wilder wins that one. Williams is too chinny to pick against Wilder. He'd probably be winning before he gets taken out highlight reel style. Berbick is the fight I'm having trouble visualizing. At his best he frustrates Wilder and wins ugly.
Joshua's primary talent is being big. Defensively he is stiff and reactionary, offensively he is unimaginative. Povetkin moves his head a little bit and throws spastic heavybag combos This is the biggest problem- Everything now is geared on sudden explosion offensively and fear defensively. Boxers waste enormous energy trying to load up bombs and jumping back in horror from punches. Offense and defense are poorly integrated. Make your opponent miss by an inch, and he's right there to be hit. Make him miss by a foot and you're probably too far away to take advantage. That's what I see with overwhelming regularity in modern boxing. I don't understand how some can't or won't. Watch Thomas vs Witherspoon above. This isn't some video of Pernell Whitaker or Jose Napoles, its two underachieving heavyweights in what was at the time a murky, helter skelter era for the division... yet compare the way they move their heads, the way they set up offense with defense, the energy expelled for each punch, each move; compare it with Joshua/Povetkin ... Holmes was in some tough fights (though you overstate it a bit with some of those names) against guys like that... guys taught how to fight other guys ... the guys around today look like they were taught first how to wail away on a hesvybag and strength train...
I never said so, either. This is the problem: you assume what I think and argue against that, while in reality we are not that far apart. Concentrate on the matter, not what you think is an agenda behind it. My take is that Holmes wouldn't have easy time with Joshua or Fury, because he didn't have easy time against the guys mentioned in this thread. Or is it your take that Joshua is clearly worse than Carl Williams?
Yeah, totally ridiculous to suggest a top 5 all time heavyweight beats two men who have proven literally nothing besides that they can beat an old, washed up Wald.
You’re attacking a straw man. Don’t change the parameters of the argument. I have no problem with someone picking Holmes to beat either guy....but I have a problem with the suggestion that it’s an easy fight/mismatch which is what cdogg alluded too when he suggested that Holmes would be “untouchable “.
The only real adjustment for Holmes is the size of some of these guys. I stand by that. They can't shine his shoes for skill and know-how
Yeah, totally. When you said Pryor impregnates Pacquiao it actually meant 'close fight' and in this thread you actually meant Holmes has to adapt while being unfuckingtouchable. I merely twisted your clear words
I agree with you on “pound for pound” skill. But size is indeed a factor here. These aren’t big stiffs like Valuev or Carnera; Fury moves well and Joshua puts his punches together well. Also Holmes didn’t often fight guys with either height or reach advantages.
This I do agree with. I just don't see size being different from speed, chin etc. attributes that are decisive. Yes, a guy with Joshua's skills and without his size would be useless, as would Ali without speed or Foreman without punch. And if Joshua were smaller, he might have more skills too. But as he is, his combination of size and little skill makes him good enough to not be clowned by Holmes. So I don't think we are worlds apart here
Hyperbole and fantasies about fighters of old is not a strong argument. When people talk about fighters like Holmes like they were super-natural, it's tough to take them seriously.
