Holmes is obviously more skilled than a Joshua, for example. But even leaving size out of it, it's not like fighters (including Holmes) haven't lost or nearly lost to lesser skilled opponents.
Cdogg I can agree that defensively Joshua is stiff and reactionary. No doubt. Joshua’s entire defensive strategy revolves around taking two steps back and blocking. Totally unimaginative. However his offence is imaginative, fluid, varied and often unpredictable. He knows how to set traps and how to nail you with shots you don’t expect. Your assessment of him is unfair in this regard.
No you constantly assert that those who disagree with your assertions are doing so because they are Bert Sugar, which is lazy nonsense You're saying Xplosive uses strawmen when you do the exact same thing Above there is a lengthy post where I explain in detail sans comedy or hyperbole why you have to really try hard to not see the difference in skill level between Thomas/Spoon and Joshua/Povetkin... it's got nothing to do with nostalgia... it's right there, the film doesn't lie ... Bert Sugar was a moron who thought Rocky Graziano was a great fighter
Hyperbole and Fantasies? There's a video in this thread. This isn't a Grantland Rice article. Try to keep up.
Really? What's a good example of this fluid, imaginative offense? The Parker fight was a classic example of a fighter with very little imagination offensively And again the opponent was a plodding cunt ... he wasn't being stymied by some crafty, Jimmy Young spoiler
I admit I do this. Mainly as a response to me being called contrarian but sometimes just for fun. In this particular thread though, Xplosive alluded that I picked Joshua over Holmes, which I never did. I truly respect your knowledge and views (same with X) and you give good reasoning for your opinions. I have learned shitloads by reading your posts. I just disagree with some stuff, and for that reason, I will continue defending my views, even if I do get called a contrarian as a result
Fury moves well for a big fat guy ... if a fat striker scored 20 goals a year for Dundalk FC, you wouldn't assume he can score 20 for Atletico Madrid. Obviously I'm exaggerating for humorous purposes here (hi Ugo) but the point stands ... I'm of the opinion that the talent pool is incredibly shallow in recent history in boxing, especially at the larger weights. I've been quite unambiguous about it. Tyson Fury is "moving well for a large guy" in a shitty time for boxing just like Dixie Dean was scoring 70000 goals in a shitty time for football I can watch Liverpool play Roma in the 1984 European Cup Final and it's good, the players are good, it's good quality and some of those players would probably be elite level today too but the majority are visibly slower and technically inferior... a match at the same level today reveals the players are on average more tactically versatile, more of them have tricks of the trade up their sleeves (they can all do the types of fancy dribbling maneuvers that in 1984 were a specialty of just a few), they are just flat out better because the film doesn't lie. Take Liverpool and Roma exactly as they are in that match and drop them into the EPL and Serie A and they are both getting relegated as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. With these same eyes, I can watch a high level boxing match from 1984 and one from now and reach the opposite conclusion... I wasn't watching either in 1984, I was playing with my legos. This isn't about nostalgia
I too fail to comprehend how anyone can watch the Thomas/Witherspoon video and not clearly see that the quality of boxing displayed is far and away better than the clumsy, plodding stuff that passes for a heavyweight fight nowadays. Both fighters slipping shots, setting up their attacks, rolling with punches, intelligent using the jab, counterpunching, feinting etc etc. All done smoothly and at a steady fluid pace, rather than the stamina-deficient, ponderous, laborious, stop-start, herky jerky, leap in then leap backwards and/or hug stuff that's displayed by virtually every heavyweight boxer around today.
Bingo. George Foreman fought like a Mummy but the more fluid looking Frazier was the one placed into the sarcophagus.
I think you're gonna be alone on this one, Ugo. Your fellow contrarian, Sly, cant back the idea of skills NOT paying the bills. It would contradict his entire posting purpose.
Even you don't believe more technical fighter always wins. So who is the contrarian here, huh? I reported your post to Carlos, brother
This sounds like a lot of guys from that era: Berbick Snipes "Bone-hugger" Smith All three top contenders back in the good ole days. None of them exactly stylish boxers. And there's plenty more. Weaver? Good puncher. Not Willy Pep. Ty Cobb.
People seem to forget the 80s Heavyweight division....but having lived through it I can tell you that before Tyson came along everyone thought it was SHIT!!!!!!
^The guy crying about being piled on because he can't handle a little banter projecting his insecurities onto me Deasil has posted before, he's not new
Ty Cobb? Quit drinking The rest of the post is nonsense too... none of them look as shit at boxing as Wilder does
Sure...but it wasn’t just that. The 80s had no exciting fighters, no characters, no knockout artists....it was a boring time. That’s why the world focused on Hagler, Leonard, Duran and Hearns and suddenly the Welterweight and Middleweight divisions received more attention than the heavyweights for the first time in history. It wasn’t until Tyson that people began to look again to the Heavyweights....and a rising tide raises all ships and in the wake of Tyson came Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, Morrison, Golota and the division thrives through the 90s and was arguably on par with the 70s. Joshua, Wilder and to a lesser extent Fury are far more exciting than anyone in the post Ali pre Tyson 80s (with the possible exception of Holmes) ever were. Now...don’t argue with that you Irish cunt...merely accept the wisdom of The Sly One.
Nonsense... "exciting" is a fucking meaningless qualification down completely to personal taste, anyway... Fury is about as exciting as cold oatmeal... the guy was one half of the most disgusting heavyweight title fight I've ever seen What on Earth is "exciting" about Joshua? The fact that he's someone other than wald pussy? Shit, Mike Weaver was involved in some absolutely scintillating contests People, meaning mostly sportswriters were spoiled by the Ali era so they slagged off on Holmes (it took years after his prime before people really appreciated his quality) and since nobody else could avoid cocaine long enough to be a consistent performer to challenge his status, they were all disparaged as crap because they weren't the 70s crop. But talent was there in abundance and there were plenty of good fights. Tyson was a phenom. A rarity. He's not indicative of anything.
I realise that, and I wasn't necessarily saying that this would mean the more skilled heavyweights will always win. Obviously, and especially with heavyweights, punching power, size and a good chin are other attributes that often can be deciding factors in a fight. I was just pointing out that to me it is clear that today's heavyweights don't display anything like the skill and craft evident in the video cdogg posted. Watch the fight, it's like night and day compared to any heavyweight matchup I've seen in years. They look like skilled middle weights alongside the lumbering oafs who call themselves heavyweights nowadays. Fury is touted as the most skilful, naturally talented boxer amongst the big men at the moment. That's pretty terrifying to be honest. There's a Youtube video of the "highlights" of his match with Klitschko. It's just over five minutes long and it's absolutely terrible. There really are no highlights whatsoever. This is the heavyweight championship of the world and the "winner" basically lurched around like an uncoordinated spastic who was trying to gurn his reluctant opponent into submission. It looked more like a toughest competition for pacifists than a championship level fight.
Who ever said Fury was skillfull??? All I ever saw is that he's loose in there and relatively fast, but I've never saw someone praise his skills or his craft.
