SEE YOU! A brand spanking new modern fitba thread 2020/21

I didn't watch it so can't really say, but IF it went down like many, many outlets are reporting, then there needs to be more action taken than a paltry fine. I think people are just getting a bit sick of it now, I know I am. I don't absolve England themselves in that by the way, I saw some utterly disgusting behaviour by England supporters when I went to some matches back in the day, so am not going to pretend we are squeaky clean either.

 

That's a big if.

 

Well played, Billeh

 

The way I look at is that there's a whole bundle of issues mixed in here together.

First off, you've got the idiots chanting. You've got the Nazi Salutes and you've got the "No Respect" tops. That's the starting point. They were there to cause offence and to wind people up. They succeeded.

UEFA did their job. The game could have been abandoned by the English players once UEFA had stopped it twice. That didn't happen. The England players played on. That was their prerogative. Not UEFA's business.



I didn't hear any monkey noises. I heard constant booing. For all the masses of "tape" produced, I can't pick out these incidents being referred to. Sky Sports is literally dedicating the first half hour of EVERY news hour to this shit. But there's been shag all proof beyond the booing.


That brings us to our second point. When you make a charge, it has to stick. The Press is saying things like "The salutes were directed at black players". Frankly, that's bollox. The salutes were salutes and anyone who saw them was being "saluted".

The 3rd issue is one of perspective. Every other day of the week, the media in the UK pumps out stories about how bigoted the UK is. Against this minority, against that minority, against the EU citizens who are in "FEAR", Windrush, etc etc etc.

Then the Bulgarian manager turns around and says "You got a bigger problem with racism in England than we do in Bulgaria" and the guy is eviscerated in the papers. But why? All he did was quote the shit the British press wallops out on an hourly daily basis. You can't kick the legs out from under yourself and expect everyone else to fucking stand to attention at your request.

The 4th issue is the one of proportion and general understanding. Bulgaria isn't England. You can't get a guy fired for calling somebody a name. That works in Tower Hamlets or the BBC or wherever. It doesn't work in Sofia. And it certainly doesn't work on the terraces. Ian Wright is on TV talking about sending people down there to educate the Bulgarians. OK, Whatever. Cos London is such a fucking success story. They ran out of white guys to do to the stabbing, they got them in from Ghana or Eritrea instead. People in Bulgaria know about this. They are on their smart phones LAUGHING at the moral outrage coming out of Fleet Street as London goes to hell in a hand basket.

The racism exists in England. They are firing guys out of Chelsea even for stuff the Police won't touch with a barge pole. Why? Cos racists aren't going to the fucking games anymore. They have to invent cases. So this "Re-Education" bollox is just that. The compliance is all fear-based. Fear of losing ones job. Fear of losing money or status. Nobody refrains from insulting language because of a lecture they received. They are either innately polite and decent OR they have the fear in them. That's it.

In Bulgaria that threat doesn't exist. So all the lectures in the world won't make a shit of difference. But BY JINGO WE'LL SHOW THEM appears to be the motto du jour.

 

The booing intensified when a black player touched the ball., I already explicity said this.

The press has referred to more evidence, that has not been forthcoming.

 

Last night was an enormous windup by people who knew they had narrowed their BS behaviour down to a sort of non-descript piss-take based on alternating levels of booing.

It was far fewer than 20K. It looked like it was in the hundreds and they left at half-time, delighted with their efforts.

There's the rub.......they basically shut half the stadium down and the same dickheads showed up.

If it's not against the law to make a salute in a football stadium., then there's fuck all to prosecute.

He had a jumper that said "No Respect"?? He was booing???

How do you prosecute that??

You need somebody saying something or doing something proscribed.

If there is no offence in the Bulgarian Criminal Code about insulting people in a public place with a racial or ethnic slur then then prosecution is basically left with nothing.

They left peacefully enough, I am not even sure there was a public order offence in it.

They knew what they were doing and have this thing figured out. Show up, boo a bit, get the game stopped a few times, fuck off back to the pubs.

They never booed their own black player.

Most of these guys are pickpockets, thugs, hard-men, bullshit merchants who like a ruck but they've done a bit of thinking here. For them, last night was all about a bit of entertainment and jollies. These are not hardened fucking extremists and if Bulgaria had been 3-0 up there wouldn't have been a peep out of them as they'd have had a different bait on their hook then.

I am telling you they are sat there right now looking at the BBC or whatever absolutely delighted with their nights work and the moral outrage in England.

 

Fine. Ban Bulgaria. For 10 years.

You know what will happen?

Fuck all.

These guys will simply show up at CSKA Sofia or Levski Sofia and carry on.

Boot them out of Europe too by all means.

So now the whole thing is shut down.

I am at a loss as to what to do with people who employ waves of booing as their main form of insult.

By all means take "serious and genuine action"- here's the thing, it's already been taken mate.

England players could have pulled the game at half-time. They were given that option.

They didn't exercise it.

 

There wiz nothing normal aboot the booing the black laddies received, intensification aside, there’s a big difference between booing and ‘ooo ooo ooing’ - even a chimpanzee can SEE that, like.

 

I know, and that kind of is my point. You can play the word "Yes" twenty times in a row and some guy will be stood there saying "hold it.......THERE!! ...he says....."No"...."

It's all very fucked.

All I can think of is just ban Bulgaria. Ban Serbia. Ban them all. Come back in 20 years, see if it has changed.

Maybe get them their own tournament, call it "The Racist Games" or something, winner gets a free Lecture Seminar from Ian Wright and Lady Lawrence, I don't know.

 

It is certainly difficult tae prove, the Bulgarian coach claims tae have heard nothing untoward.

 

It's insane that crowds of people make ape noises at black people in 2019 and there's no reason why any black person should have to just "get on with it" just because they play football for a living

That shit wouldn't even happen in Alabama

 

He's sat there in a certain seat, already focused on how his {admittedly shit team} are being spanked...............some guy 20 rows away says "Nagger".......he doesn't hear it. The ITV guys don't give any proof like a bit of video of the perp saying it, matey boy manager, who probably has family and feels its not his job to deal with this shit........decides discretion is the better part of valour and he cops out of the argument.

I don't blame him one jot. What's he to do? Attack these clowns and his door/windows get put in?

 

Again, I didn't hear the ape noises. The ape noises, a la Spain back in the day, are "OOH OOH OOH".

Here, it was constant booing.

And, there was NO obligation to tolerate it. At half time the protocol already said that England were within their rights to abandon the game.

The way it works is dead simple..........the first infraction is reported to the referee. The crowd is warned. The second infraction is reported and the crowd is warned that the game is on the verge of abandonment.

If it happens again, the victimized side has the option to abandon and the other side forfeits, irrespective of the score.

The problem here is that it's going to be very easy to throw the games.

Game is 0-0 after 50 minutes, somebody has money down.........40 morons make noises, game gets tossed out.

 

Yeah but it doesn't seem like this was just 40 morons... you have a hell of a time hearing 40 morons out of thousands of people

 

And you could make that argument about anything that warrants a forfeit under the rules... somebody has money down, score is whatever, a few morons throw bottles on the field etc

 

Celtic vs Rapid in Europe in what was it 1982 or 83? Literally one guy threw something, a guy pretended to be hurt... and Celtic got fucked

 

The England fans were fairly clear in their chanting, God Save The Queen, etc.

I give 40 as an example......if you want a game tossed, just get a few hundred guys in one corner........at the prescribed time they all misbehave...game over.

 

Right but you could say that of anything in the rulebook that can cause a match to be forfeited

 

UEFA has had issues for years. The European Cup was basically fixed at one point in the 1960's. They had a Hungarian Communist called Georgi Vardas who was bagman between Italian oilmen that owned these clubs and he would approach referees offering all manner of stuff, medical treatment for sick children, electronic doo-das, women etc.

So basically UEFA is a law unto itself.......but here the pitch is queered and not by John O'Shea or Graeme LeSaux but by the fact that it's all international diplomacy and shit.

 

That pitch is queered bit

 

This is the easiest way. If 100 guys storm the pitch they get battered by the Bulgarian cops and dragged off and the game might resume....the other side cannot unilaterally walk off and claim victory.

Here there is an actual rule that one team can walk off and WIN even if they are 4-0 down etc.

Dicey..........and then the question is where is the line drawn? As was pointed out last night if Jermaine Defoe played for Rangers tomorrow vs Arsenal he would get booed like fuck. Cos he is black? No cos he played for Spurs. And the game could get tossed. It's wide open to all manner of horseshit.

If Bulgaria get banned for 20 years..............for the next 20 years every fucking instance of even remotely tangential nastiness in England will get bigged up by the Bulgarian and international papers........the British ambassador will get called in every 10 minutes.........it will rankle and rankle........and nobody actually wants this.

 

Proper fucked.

 

Yeah but that never happens. What they do is they pull the game and batter the revelers. It's almost impossible to get the game pulled...I've seen guys attack players, several - at least 3 incidents I can think of- and the state of play resumed after the usual bumflufferies had been completed by the authorities.

Here there is an actual protocol- 2 stops and the "victims" have the right to pull the plug.

It's so subjective and arbitrarily so...................

 

Trevor "Nazi" Nelson............"I was booing".

FUCKING DO HIM!!!!

 

First off - nae cunt boos Dafoe.

Secondly - Irish, Ye still havenae accepted that there's ordinary booing and racist 'ooo ooo ooing'.

Accept it!

 

...

 

Erm..................

 

Is that Bill Oddie?

 

Bill Oddie/Graeme Garden/Tim Brooke-Taylor: THE GOODIES