Pernell Whitaker vs Juan Manuel Marquez

At 130, 135, 140, and 147.

Does the weight matter?

 

Love marquez but this is the epitome of a bad matchup stylistically for him

 

It's more than just styles. Pete was just plain and simple a LOT better than Marquez.

 

He was?

 

Yes, he was.

Marquez is historically a bit overrated. A great fighter, who just happened to have a greater/better fighter's number.

At NO point was Marquez the best fighter in the world, which Pea clearly was from 89-93.

Whitaker was a level above. He's in the same tier as Roy/Floyd, which is a level Marquez was never on.

 

No

 

Whitaker is a top 10-15 ATG.

Marquez probably doesn't even crack the top 40.

 

JMM accomplished every bit as much as Whitaker.

 

Huhh????

 

Dude how old are you? X is right, Whitaker was on that Floyd/RJJ level and as good as JMM was he was a tier below those guys.

 

You're talking to a man who once went on record saying that JL Castillo could beat Whitaker, and tried to justify the Whitaker-Chavez draw.

Long story short... Doub ain't too fond of Whitaker, and ain't too objective on him.

 

What did whitaker do that exceeds JMM' accomplishments?

 

I don’t know, fought better competition maybe. He has a gold medal in the Pan Am games and the Olympics to boot. He held the title for longest unified title reign at light weight and was considered pound for pound #1 by Ring magazine for 10 years. He has always been arguably considered one of the greatest boxers ever, a status I’ve never once heard associated with JMM.
I can go on if you like.

 

Olympics don't mean shit. And it's debatable whether whitaker faced better comp.

 

So tell me what makes JMM better?

 

I never said he's better. I questioned X's usual hyperbole of saying that Whitaker was a "LOT" better than JMM.

 

Well would you say Floyd was a lot better than JMM? I don’t know how you want it worded, lot better? clearly better? Either way I see a pretty lopsided unanimous decision by Whitaker similar to what Floyd did.

 

You're seriously drawing conclusions from JMM at 147? I'll remind you the guy fought most of his career at 126 and was considered undersized at 135, let alone 147. Pbf's win over him doesn't mean shit. I still consider PBF a better fighter than JMM but it has nothing to do with the outcome of their fight. And the same goes for a Whitaker/JMM matchup.

 

Floyd started off in the same division, the only difference is he worked his way up a lot earlier than JMM did.

With the exception of power, Sweet Pea was better at every aspect of the game than JMM was and in fact a better thread would have been Whitaker versus Mayweather because at least that is a fight where the outcome is debatable.

 

Pbf started at 130. And frequently fought above 130 while he was there.

 

If True, This is Even MORE Egregious Than Doub's CONFIDENT Pre-Fight ASSertion WHOlio Gonzalez Would Beat Roy Jones...

Of Course, Doub's SINCE Claimed He was Just Being "Facetious"...





REED

 

agREED...

Great, Skilled, Fan-Friendly Fighter But Marquez was CLEARLY "Joe Frazier" to Manny Pacquiao's "Muhammad Ali"...Pernell Whitaker's Greatness was Much More SINGULAR and Not Attached to 1 Particular Opponent the Way Marquez's Was...






REED

 

What was Marquez's Equivalent of Dela, Tito and JC Vasquez???...

All Younger, Taller, Loooonger, Stronger, Harder Punching Men than a Clearly Past Prime Whittaker, Who Pernell ARGUABLY Went 2-1 Against (1-1-1 on REED's Unofficial Scorecard)...





REED

 

I still don’t think he was a better fighter.

 

Nobody's arguing he was! Has anyone made the claim that JMM was better than Whitaker? No! What I was objecting to was the statement: "Whitaker was a LOT better than JMM." I disgree with that.

 

Whitaker was better than Marquez by a real clear margin. Again, if you remove Pac, it's almost comical to compare JMM to Pete.

As REED said, Whitaker's greatness is far less dependent on one single opponent the way Marquez's is.

If I were to name the five best fighters of the last 50 years, I'd say (in no order): Duran, Leonard, Roy, Whitaker, and Floyd.

Marquez wouldn't even be in the top 20 of fighters in the last 50 years.

So yes, there is a big gap.

 

Good list.

 

Whitaker wide at LW, 140, and WW

Whitaker never fought at 130, so it's conceivable that Marquez could stop a drained Whitaker late

 

How about at 126? Where jmm fought for 6 years? Would pbf be too drained to beat him there?

 

JMM has a lot of good names on his resume. To start, he faced Pac 4 times! Also, he has wins over Barrera, Casamayor, Salido, Agapito Sanchez, Juan Diaz (twice), Juarez, Gainer, Medina...Hamed famously ducked him