Bad decisions with Racist motives

Hello all,

The timing of this is just coincidence, nothing to do with the current racial climate or current events.

I have always been fascinated with Rubin Carter. Not just the tripe murder case but his boxing career as well. As soon as I saw the way The Hurricane portrayed the Joey Giardello fight I was immediately put off and researched every other aspect of Carter's life and the case.

But it got me thinking - are there any good examples of a poor decision or a robbery that was based on racial motives? And I am mostly talking in America, a fight between Americans, and race was the primary reason (according to consensus) for a poor decision taking place?

I can't think of any.... but must be losing my memory in my older age.

Typically the boxing decisions are influenced by the mob, promoters, the house fighter or nationality.

I don't mean that black fighters didn't get shortchanged early on in the sport - there are many instances of guys like Sam Langford who were forced to lose fights in order to set up better ones down the line, pretty sure Jack Johnson had to do that as well?

But once the color line was broken - do we see a lot of instances where black fighters go the short end of the stick in decisions?

 

Can't think of any ..... but starts thread

 

I'm sure back in the 1920s it was a thing. Until they realized... you know what's better that racist motives? Financial motives.

 

I think robberies happened in the past for the same reason they happen today: money.

Basically, whichever guy has more fans - if there's going to be a robbery, it's going to be in his favor.

In the early 20th century, it was not good business for blacks to win.

 

Interesting topic. It is a valid question indeed as several reasons have caused bogus decisions and refereeing but apart from old times I have never heard speculation about racist decisions. Instead it has been about the favorite of the promoter as Double said.

The set up of fights has been racist (like in Holmes-Cooney) but I can't think of such decisions.

In track-and-field this happened. The guy closest to the camera was declared 4th in this 100 meter race in 1938. The guy was Jewish

 

Nationalist, yes. Racist, no. I've seen any number of obviously fixed fights {Joshua London 2012 for example} where it was not racial, just local.

It's very hard to set up a fight to get Judges to score it for your guy with guaranteed success .............he could get knocked the fuck out long before that happens.

What you do instead is shorten the fight {Greb/Walker vs Flowers knocked down from 15 to 10 rounds} or you get fights called on short notice, sympathetic referees who let a guy fight a certain way etc, rounds interrupted/shortened [think Brian Nielsen vs Dickie Ryan}

 

happens in Asia for sure

 

For some reason reading this thread title at first I was thinking in ‘life’ terms. Like who in boxing has made some bad life decisions that had racist motivations. Right away I’m thinking BHop and Floyd both their entire lives up to now and going into the future probably fit this thread.

Im not even kidding, i was thinking this, even reading the OP.. when it said ‘bad decisions or robberies’ I was still humming along thinking about who in boxing was involved in racially motivated robberies back when.. not until near the end of the OP I read ‘forced to lose fights’ and Im thinking hmmm, seems a bit out of context. Then it started slowly dawning on me...

 

A race based decision could be perceived as racist.

 

Eh sorry man - poorly worded title, poorly worded post

 

I find it interesting - Rubin Carter claimed he was jobbed in the Giardello fight due to racism. He probably eventually adjusted it to shift the blame on society's dislike of him as a threat to the institution. Either scenario is rather baseless imo. Especially the former. As far as I can tell, fights weren't decided on the basis of race unless there was a nationalistic element to the decision.

I wanted to run it by you all as well, but I can't think of any blatant instances or examples of a fighter getting robbed in a fight strictly because of their race.

 

Giardello won the Carter fight deservedly.

 

Agreed. 9-6 by my tally.

 

Nah. I saw that movie. See, Norman Jewison did his research, and Carter won that fight, but.......Da Loominati rigged it so that it came out all wrong and Whitey got the win. I saw that movie. And they had some schmuck write a tune about how Ruben was Robbed. And people lapped it up. Fuck the fight video, go watch the movie.

 

Giardello sued because of the portrayal and it was settled out of court.

I've never actually seen the movie though. Did they depict it as Carter getting robbed due to racism, or the standard boxing corruption angle?

 

It was portrayed a racism, another in the long line of race-based discrimination that Carter had to face his whole life culminating in being framed for murder. Carter always asserted that White America hated him and had it out for him because he was such a dangerous black man.

The issue I always had with the movie is the extremes it went to portray these things. I had seen the fight before watching this movie, and I was always interested in Carter's career (same last name as me), the fight was a clear loss and it wasn't especially noteworthy other than how poorly Carter faded in the fight. The movie and Carter's biography go as far as to say that it was a blatant robbery and the press reported it as such. Complete lies.

THe portrayal of the fight serves as a microcosm of everything in the movie regarding Carter's life as far as I am concerned. I don;t doubt he faced bad racism in 1960's America and before that growing up. I am not even certain he actually pulled the trigger but he goes so far lying about his entire life to portray himself as the victim it makes me question anything he claims.

The movie is infuriating if you are familiar with anything in the case. It's more fiction than Braveheart

 

Careful noo.

 

Another thread for Hitman to get another discussuon going about Ruben Carter.

Well played.

 

I guess you can kind of see why they went there but it's still not excusable. If you want to want to make up something fictional simply do so. It's a movie after all, you don't have limits. Don't take something that has historical evidence along with video and then attempt to re-write it.

 

"Coulda been champeen of the Wurlddddd.........but there were too many better fighters and they had better jabs and shittttttttt"

Sang some little rat-faced fucker.

"Look at me, I am so serious, I understand all this shit, better than you".

 

A pop song that wasn't historically completely accurate. A travesty

 

More cleverness.

Pop song my ass.

It was a piece of political protest........that was defamatory.........coming as it did from a guy claiming the high moral ground.......

 

He was? In my experience the people throughout nearly all of history claiming the moral high ground have been priests, preachers, nuns, televangelists and that ilk.

 

No actors? No athletes? No musicians?

Whiskey doing lockdown in an abbey with Friar Tuck.

 

It was a pop song made to protest injustice. 'He could have been a champion of the world' is an obvious hyperbole which means the guy who got wrongly convicted lost his future and dreams. And even if Dylan meant it literally, so what? He isn't a boxing expert but that doesn't change the point of the song one bit

Look, we both know what's the real problem in your opinion. Just take it out of GD and I won't bother you

 

It's a fucking thread about racist decisions!!

Bother me? You couldn't bother me if your lfe depended on it. I live for the repartee and the banter remember. I need you in here, armed with your little intellectual needle, stabbing !! Prodding!!

How Ugot sees himself:




How Ugot IS:

 

All of which Dylan (or at very least, his followers) would claim to ´be´ or have some ´affinity´ with at some point...

 

Hooooaahhhhhhh!!!

You gonna take that, Ugo???
Get back in here and fight, godammn it!!