Been a lot of talk about Roman, Watanabe, Galaxy, etc; as of late. What would you say are your top ten all-time super-flyweights?Accomplishments, H2H, whatever. Let's have a look, just specify your criteria and reasoning. I have a rough idea of mine, will post later.
1. Khaosai 2. Watanabe 3. Moon 4. Roman 5. Tapia 6. Tokuyama 7. Estrada Thats my top 7. Have to think about who I would place 8-10. I dont think Roman ever beats Moon. And given his chin, I definitely don't think he beats Galaxy. He might have always beaten Jiro, its tough to say. Tapia doesn't beat any of the top 4 imo. I think its possible Tapia loses to Tokuyama and Estrada as well.
Actually, if we're taking as a H2H force, probably put Inoue in that #5 spot. I definitely think Inoue KOs Tokuyama, and I think Inoue beats the crap outta Tapia.
This'd be my list in terms of accomplishments: #01. Gilberto Roman #02. Sung-Kil Moon #03. Jiro Watanabe #04. Khaosai Galaxy #05. Johnny Tapia #06. Gerry Penalosa #07. Masamori Tokuyama #08. Srisaket Sor Rungvisai #09. Vic Darchinyan #10. Juan Francisco Estrada I think H2H is an entirely different question. Roman probably wouldn't be my number one, and neither would Watanabe or Khaosai (for now, we'll see). I'd actually go with Moon. Inoue could potentially be, I'd need to see more of him. Donaire is a dark horse too.
Moon couldn't handle the lesser of the Galaxy brothers. I know some believe Khaokor was more talented, but I dont see it. Khaosai beats the shit outta Moon, in all honesty. Forgot about Penalosa. I probably see Penalosa schooling Tapia.
I've always thought that Khaokar was better, but like I said, I need to watch more Galaxy. That said, I've seen enough to have a good grasp of his abilities, weaknesses, strengths and style. I don't think someone as easy to hit as Galaxy has his way with Moon, and he has been dropped and hurt by lesser punches than the Midget Marciano. And I don't buy that he'd destroy Moon on the way in, Nana couldn't and there isn't a big difference in power there. I think Moon breaking down Galaxy is just as likely as the other way round. I'd actually pick Tapia to beat Penalosa. Very bad style for Gerry IMO, although I consider Gerry a better fighter. Too Sharp could make an appearance. Harada and Borkhorsor may actually be the best SFlys ever, had it been around when they were.
I dont think Konadu compares to Galaxy in any way, shape, or form, especially not in power. Galaxy was rightfully ranked i think as high as top 20 on the greatest punchers of the last 100 years, and I think its deserved. You make Konadu out to be more of a wrecking ball than he was. Tapia I think could be nullified by an exceptional boxer, and Penalosa countered with more than enough power to makw Johnny think twice. Too Sharp can definitely rank up here if we're talking H2H. And yeah, Harada beats every guy on this list.
Xplosive, is it possible your complete disregard for Konadu’s abilities are tied in to your dislike for Tapia? What indications did Roman give of being shot or even faded prior to getting bounced around the ring like a basketball by the great Ghanaian?
I think Konadu was quality and definitely a hard puncher. But no, I dont buy Konadu with comparable power to one of the biggest punchers ever.
@George Crowcroft I was contemplating a matchup between Penalosa and Darchinyan. I figure Gerry would have countered the shit outta Vic.
Yeah, Gerry from the Lee fight would lay a beatdown on Vic. Darchinyan would probably land about six shots in as many rounds. I think he'd absolutely decimate Vic's body. I really do love Gerry. He's the Fighter's fighter. When he practiced on the pads, everyone in the room watched and took notes. He didn't fear anybody, and was made of absolute iron. I honestly think he's impossible to legitimately stop below 126. Not Gomez or Pacquiao would stop him IMO.
Hard to envision any superfly in history going the distance with Bakooka, given his firepower and offensive variety. But does Penalosa last longer than any guy on this list? Probably. Gomez stops Khaosai, Jiro, Roman, Moon, and Inoue inside of 5-6. Tapia would last awhile cause of his chin, but he takes a horrific beating.
If you’re buying that Galaxy is one of the hardest punchers ever, maybe not. I think Konadu proved his power more conclusively against Roman, Moon, Sahaprom, and Chuvatana than Galaxy did in his entire run as Super Flyweight trinket holder. And yes, that’s all he ever was. The exact same as Inoue was at Super Fly. Both fought in divisional golden ages where the other champs and top contenders were busy fighting each other to prove their standing. They chose to stay defending their share against the second rung almost exclusively on their home soil. But, they came out unscathed, while the others picked up losses. They’re both higher regarded by the mainstream as a result, so I can’t fault their business sense. It’s all about perception, not reality.
So if gonzalez wins the rematch with Estrada and wins a third fight against sor rungvisai wheres that put him in these rankings?
Whats with the Moon craze? Like I'm a BIG fan of Moon, but he stops Zamora 3 rounds earlier than Zarate did???? Yeah, he's getting a little overrated.
2 rounds earlier. That doesn’t mean Moon is twice the fighter Zarate is, by the way. It’s just a different matchup. Zarate was more cerebral and measured than either of these guys. By a long ways. He took his time seizing Zamora up and then took him apart. Moon had no time for such fluff. Neither did Zamora, for that matter. This would be a tear up from the opening bell. Those typically don’t last long when both men have dynamite in their gloves. I pick Moon to come out on top for a very simple reason. He had a jaw carved out of stone, while Zamora’s jaw was drunkenly constructed with left over bits of papier-mâché.
The same place it would put George Foreman if he came out of retirement after another 20+ years and regained the Heavyweight championship again. A place called Fantasy Land.
Youre exaggerating Zamora's chin a bit. It wasn't great, but he wasn't Khan either. I can envision a late Moon stoppage, but who did Moon KO that quickly? Inside of 2. Off the top of my head, I think only an incredibly shot, fully blown coke addicted Zapata. Seriously, this might ruffle yall feathers, but was Moon THAT much better than Hong? I dont think he was. If Moon was around in the 60s and 70s, pre super flyweight, and had to face Olivares, Jofre, Harada, Medel, Castillo, Rose, Herrera, Zarate, Zamora, I dont think it's gonna end well for him. And once again, this is coming from a Moon fan. I think he was a helluva fighter, and should be in the Hall. But all this "midget Marciano" talk. No. Just no. Moon couldn't shine Marciano's boots.
Oh, I’m not picking him over most of those guys. I just think he matches up really well with Zamora. You’re right on your general point. He wouldn’t have been a dominant force at Bantam in any strong era. More of an upset kinda guy. He sure was at 115, though. But nah, certainly no Marciano.
