Greater/Better: Tszyu vs Hamed

What say yall?

 

Tszyu. Hamed lost to the first decent fighter he fought etc.

MTF

 

Naz had beaten plenty of decent fighters. Kelly, Medina, Johnson, Robinson, Bungu, Ingle, Vasquez.

You could say first elite fighter.

 

I typed 'elite' first time out, but changed it. The best 'prime' fighter he beat was Ingle IMO. 'Elite' didn't quite sit right.

MTF

 

Bungu was really Naz's best win, considering Bungu is a top 10 all time guy at 122.

But never did anything of consequence at 126, and was fading by time he fought Naz.

 

Yeah, I won't argue too hard with Bungu being his best win, but IMO Ingle was the best prime fighter he faced, and beat. Bungu was well on the down side when Hamed got round to him.

MTF

 

Tszyu by a considerable margin.

 

Id go with Hamed. A 140 lbs guy like Barrera would also have given tszyu a good thrashing

 

Find it weird that Hamed's loss to Barrera is being called into question. Do people not remember when Kostya lost to Phillips? Or even Hatton? Barrera was much better than either.

I think Tszyu was the better fighter in the ring, but he's overrated. His achievements are very thin.

 

So, the question becomes: Why do you hold it against Hamed for losing to the only great fighter he faced, but don’t hold it against Tszyu for losing even more conclusively in the middle of his prime to a fighter who never even sniffed greatness?

 

I think that the difference is that Hamed packed it in after losing to Barrera. Tszyu learned from his loss to Philip's, improved and had a great deal of success afterward.

 

Beat me to it. Here’s the other thing, there’s essentially no difference between them resume wise. The best names they beat were past prime, otherwise their best wins were over solid but unspectacular opposition.

The main difference is that Tszyu lost in the middle of his prime to a second rater and at the end of his career to an elite. Hamed lost only to an elite at the end of his career.

On the flip side, both lost their first fights at 27 years old. Tszyu rebounded and started another reign that lasted longer than the first, not losing again until age 35. Hamed lost and then more or less gave up.

But then, Tszyu didn’t turn pro until 22 after a prestigious and extensive amateur career, whereas Hamed turned pro as soon as he was legal. So one’s 27 isn’t exactly the others’.

 

Yup, very weird to me.

I wasn't a fan of either, so I have no dog in the fight, but yeah Hamed is being sold short here.

I dont think its far fetched at all to call him greater than Tszyu.

 

I go with Tszyu and don't say it's far fetched but for me it's clear. Hamed was overall good for the sport in terms of attention. That's kind of where it ends though. Huge mouth, extravagant entrances and big power.

Tszyu was not not only a decorated amateur but had a solid pro career. Widely considered one of the best junior lightweights ever. Without the festivities Naseem is a footnote.

 

The part about Tszyu being considered greater for his weight class is highly deceptive because featherweight is one of the deepest divisions in the sport's history, and junior welterweight is not.

Tszyu would not register as a top 10 all time featherweight.

Might be controversial, but I would say 95-97 Hamed peaked higher than 99-00 Tszyu.

 

I pick Hamed but I'll admit my choice comes with a Valuev-sized pinch of bias as Naz, along with Lewis, was one of the two fighters who made me a boxing fan in the first place. Also, I've never been a fan of Tszyu.

I do concede that objectively it's close between him and Tszyu, but I agree that Hamed's opposition gets sold short quite a bit. No he didn't beat any elite guys, but there are some very good fighters on his resume.

 

Great post, both are C level greats imo and it's hard to make a clear choice between the two since none has a great win. Judah is probably the best win on either resume and he falls quite short of being a great (plus I felt it was stopped too soon, don't want to open this can of worms again though). Hamed on the other hand was a bit more dominant and has a slightly better overall resume. Gun to my head I'd go with Tzsyu but both are highly overrated imo

 

I do pick Tszyu for greatness, but it's not wide.

Hamed, "like I said before," I believe peaked higher.

I don't see a B-level guy like Philips beating a peak Hamed.

 

On paper, they both have comparable resumes IMO - they both beat a bunch of very good, but arguably not truly great (at the time) fighters. I think a case could be made that Tszyu's win over Judah was the biggest single win of either fighter's career.

In terms of actual ability, I'd say Tszyu was a better fighter. He was much more skilled and versatile than Hamed IMO.

 

That’s just hating, really. He successfully defended his Featherweight title 15 consecutive times. 4th highest total in Featherweight history. That’s more than Tszyu had in both of his runs combined.

Upon winning the title, he won 10 straight defenses by knockout. Again, that’s more than Tszyu had in both runs combined.

In all, 14 of his 15 defenses came by KO. Highest total in Featherweight history. The only man to last the distance? The legendarily durable Wayne McCullough.

Say what you want about his technique, personality, theatrics, etc. but the guy was a seriously dangerous fighter.

 

Tszyu apologists like to say that he was pre-prime when he lost to Philips, and got so much better after, but that's a load of bullshit.

I already mentioned earlier today how his best performance was probably Jan Bergman, and that was before the Philips loss.

Philips beat a prime Tszyu.

 

Tszyu hit the ground running as a pro. That’s how it goes with most highly rated international level amateurs. He showed a more varied and impressive technical approach back then.

Anyways, anyone know why a rematch never took place?

 

I don't think Tszyu wanted one.

 

Here is what you have to ask yourself. How would tszyu have reacted and how would his career path have been altered if as he walked to the ring to face Judah when some rabid, lubed up Brooklynite Judah fanatic pelted him in the rat tail with 16 ounces of malt liquor?

 

Who do you have as better and greater?

 

Hamed was mentally broken by an 8-4 points defeat. That's really bad when you think about it.

 

I disagree about "mentally broken."

Naz was wealthy, and no longer gave a shit about the sport after he lost.

We've never heard anything about Naz being a depressed guy. He just no longer had any hunger - for BOXING. For food? Ohhhh yes!

 

Tszyu's once greatest supporter has spoken - that settles it!