The Official Scorecard Thread

Agreed on Bungu.

He loses to MAB and Morales, but gives a good account of himself in both fights.

The only three super bantams in history who likely blow Bungu out are Gomez, Pac, and Fenech.

 

RL, I scored this one a few months back and differed a bit from your card. But, hey, we're all not in lockstep with one another, which is what makes us all unique. Here is how I saw it and what I wrote:

Emile Griffith and Luis Rodriguez I. Scored on the NY rounds basis. Here we go, 10 rounds.

Round 1: Griffith
Round 2: Rodriguez
Round 3: Griffith
Round 4: Rodriguez
Round 5: Rodriguez
Round 6: Even
Round 7: Griffith
Round 8: Rodriguez
Round 9: Rodriguez
Round 10: Rodriguez

Total: 6-3-1 Rodriguez

Actual scores were 6-4 and 5-4-1 Griffith and 5-4-1 Rodriguez. What won it for Luis on my card was simply workrate. Griffith was the stronger of the two but when Griffith clinched - especially in the last 3 rounds - he really wanted to clinch. But Luis kept slathering his mid-section with body punches in those clinches. He was tireless and scoring cleanly. IMO, Rodriguez won the bout on workrate.

 

Navarette blows out Bungu

 

Lmao!

Gomez, Pac, Fenech, and the mighty.... Navarette.

I'm not sold on Nazareth as some great. I think Dogboe was trash.

Vuyani Bungu would outbox Navarette.

 

As a matter of styles, Bungu would've been tailor made for Navarette.

 

We don't know who's tailor made for Navaratte yet - he's not proven.

Dogboe was a highly flawed fighter.

 

Michael Spinks v Johnny Davis

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Davis
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Spinks
Round 5: 10-9 Spinks
Round 6: 10-9 Spinks
Round 7: 10-9 Spinks
Round 8: 10-8 Spinks (scores a knockdown)
Round 9: Spinks stops Davis

Total through 8 completed rounds: 79-74 Spinks (actual scores: 79-74, 79-73 and 78-73 all for Spinks)

I 'mis-remembered' this fight. I thought it was a close one when it was stopped, but actually I had Spinks running away with it, with the only close rounds being the first 3. Spinks performed a real finishing job on Davis in the 9th.

Matthew Saad Muhammad v Vonzell Johnson

Round 1: 10-9 Johnson
Round 2: 10-9 Johnson
Round 3: 10-9 Johnson
Round 4: 10-9 Johnson
Round 5: 10-9 Johnson
Round 6: 10-8 Saad (scores a knockdown)
Round 7: 10-9 Saad
Round 8: 10-9 Saad
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Saad
Round 11: Saad stops Johnson

Total through 10 completed rounds: 95-95 (actual scores: 97-93 and 98-92 both for Saad and a 95-95 Even)

Johnson just could not keep up the pace he had set for himself. He gave it his all in the 9th, but he was coming apart at the seams and Saad ended matters in the 11th. BTW, that knockdown for Johnson in the 6th was pure BS. Another of Tony Perez' mistakes to add to his long list.

 

Mando Ramos and Teo Cruz II for Cruz' lightweight title.

Cruz had retained his title on a 15 round decision in their first fight (after Ramos went out with Raul Rojas for a night on the town the night before their respective bouts - btw, both lost). But here we go. California rules of 1 point for a round, 2 if there is a knockdown and 0 points for an even round.

Round 1: Ramos
Round 2: Cruz
Round 3: Cruz
Round 4: Ramos
Round 5: Ramos
Round 6: Ramos
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Cruz
Round 9: Ramos
Round 10: Ramos
Round 11: Ramos stops Cruz

Total through 10 completed rounds: 6-3 Ramos (actual scores: 5-3 Ramos, 6-3 Cruz and 4-4 Even)

This was about the most contained I ever saw Ramos. He didn't get into any unnecessary dustups - which was really against type for him - kept the jab and combos moving and whacked the body every chance he could. But even still, Cruz got through with a very refined overhand right and uppercut. Still, I felt Ramos' work was better and it was a very nice and tidy fight that I enjoyed seeing for the first time.

 

George Foreman-Alex Stewart

Round 1: Foreman
Round 2: Foreman (10-7)
Round 3: Foreman
Round 4: Stewart
Round 5: Foreman
Round 6: Stewart
Round 7: Stewart
Round 8: Foreman
Round 9: Stewart
Round 10: Stewart (10-8)

94-93 Foreman

Foreman really paid a price for not finishing Stewart in the 2nd. His face was grotesque by the end of the fight.

 

I watched a 10 rounder today that I saw on a tape delay of about 6 months back in '72. My favorite fighter of all time was Armando Muniz and here he is in a 10 rounder with the veteran Raul 'Chato' Soriano. Man, watching this all this time later brings me back to hearing Mickey Davies and Tom Harmon broadcasting from the Forum. And the fight was awesome. California scoring of one point for a round and none for an even round.

Armando Muniz v Raul Soriano

Round 1: Soriano
Round 2: Even
Round 3: Soriano
Round 4: Soriano
Round 5: Muniz
Round 6: Muniz
Round 7: Soriano
Round 8: Soriano
Round 9: Muniz
Round 10: Muniz

Total: 5-4 Soriano (actual scores: 5-5 and two scores of 6-3 for Soriano by a majority decision)

You know I'm a Muniz die-hard when I'm screaming for blood when Muniz has Soriano in distress those last two rounds of a fight that took place 48 years ago. I have to give Soriano credit. Man, he knew every trick in the book. Good fight.

 

Jose Luis Ramirez v Edwin Rosario 2

I needed to watch a fight like this - a classic Mexico-Puerto Rico clash in the dusk in an outdoor ring in San Juan, it doesn't get much better than that for a setting.

And the fight more than lived up to its surroundings. The Ring's FOTY for 1984, Rosario started like he wanted to erase any doubts about their first fight's outcome, dropping Ramirez early in both of the first two rounds and giving him a beating in both. There was no doubt that both of those were 10-8 rounds for Rosario so the official scoring was off in this one (not that it would matter).

The comeback from Ramirez started in round 3 as he showed tremendous will after surviving the first two rounds to rock Rosario. Rosario was wary after that and it allowed Ramirez to establish a foothold in the fight. And he kept it going in the 4th. Even then, the end came suddenly, Ramirez throwing combinations and sending Rosario's head backwards before ducking under him and sending him into the corner face-first. Had Rosario managed to turn around he might have survived but Ramirez gave him no chance and battered him in the back of the head till the ref waved it off.

One of the great short fights.

1 8-10 (Ramirez down)
2 8-10 (Ramirez down again)
3 10-9
(26-29)
4 Ramirez TKO Rosario

 

I watched a couple of Mark Kaylor fights today, which I enjoyed for both action and controversy.

Mark Kaylor v Bobby Watts

This bout was originally supposed to be Tony Sibson against Bobby Watts, but Sibbo had to pull out with a back injury (according to the announcer) and Kaylor - perhaps he was on the undercard - was first set to fight Doug Demmings, then Stacy McSwain before they moved him up to the main event. What is interesting is what takes place peripherally. Check out the end of the first round and the beginning of the second round. Had me shaking my head. And then the end of the fight all hell broke loose. No point running a card here. Kaylor won every round, but of course, this was not a prime Watts. Still, you take advantage of everything that is thrown your way in this game. When the fight is stopped in the 4th with Watts under heavy pressure, he goes ballistic. He should have used some of that surplus energy to get off the ropes. Crazy stuff.

Mark Kaylor v Tom Collins

This is Kaylor now fighting at light heavy where I don't feel he really belonged. Still, he gave a good account of himself. I knew of Collins and had only seen his fight with Jeff Harding before this. Here we go for the Euro 175 title.

Round 1: Kaylor
Round 2: Kaylor
Round 3: Collins
Round 4: Kaylor
Round 5: Kaylor
Round 6: Collins
Round 7: Kaylor
Round 8: Collins (I gave this a 2 point round because Collins really battered Kaylor)
Round 9: Collins KOs Kaylor

Total through 8 rounds on British scoring: 78-77 1/2 with Kaylor ahead.

One side note to this fight was the 3rd round, which I originally scored even. In the 4th Harry Carpenter really went on about what a good round the 3rd was for Kaylor. I was thinking, 'What?!' So I looked at it again - which I rarely do - and did change it, but in favor of Collins. Carpenter went on about one sequence where Kaylor landed 3-4 uppercuts in a row, but really that was it from him. On further review, I felt it was Collins round. As the fight progressed one could see Kaylor had absolutely no defense for Collins' overhand right, which he really began to fire in the 7th. During the 8th he was coming apart at the seams and it was just a matter of time.

 

Edwin Rosario v Howard Davis

Excellent, competitive fight in which the challenger gave the champ all he could handle and nearly pulled the win out but the two knockdowns were the difference, particularly the one in the final seconds of the final round that certainly saved Rosario's title.

Rosario started well with that early KD but Davis fought his way back quickly and they traded rounds through the rest of the fight, Rosario always slightly ahead on my card because of the two point round in the second. Davis fought a composed fight but Rosario showed grit to get over the line at the end. Although for the most part it was a bit of a chess match, it was always absorbing and top quality stuff from both fighters.

1 10-10
2 10-8 (Rosario puts Davis down with a hard jab)
3 9-10 (Davis rocks Rosario with a good right hand)
4 9-10 (Davis is well in the fight)
5 10-9 (close)
6 9-10
7 10-9 (close)
8 9-10
9 10-9
10 10-9 (best action round of the fight)
11 9-10
12 10-8 (great final round which Davis was winning until Rosario hurt him but he might still have taken it.. but the final seconds knockdown secured it for Rosario)

Rosario 115-112 Davis

 

Today I watched the first fight between John Conteh and Chris Finnegan. Finnegan's British and Commonwealth titles on the line and Conteh's European title back when all 3 were contested over 15 rounds. Here we go.

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Conteh
Round 3: Conteh
Round 4: Finnegan
Round 5: Conteh
Round 6: Conteh
Round 7: Conteh
Round 8: Conteh
Round 9: Finnegan
Round 10: Conteh
Round 11: Conteh
Round 12: Conteh
Round 13: Conteh
Round 14: Conteh
Round 15: Finnegan

Total: 11-3-1 in rounds but using the British scoring in effect at the time I had it 74 1/4 - 72 1/4 for Conteh. Referee Sid Nathan, the sole arbiter, had it 74 1/4 - 73 1/2 for Conteh. So if I am correct in what I am looking at, Nathan must have had about 6 even rounds.

Conteh just was not going to be denied. And as plucky as Chris was he just lacked the kind of punch that was going to deter Conteh. I will say this for Chris, he fought his heart out to win that last round. Two outstanding fighters in a tough era.

 

Lupe Pintor v Alberto Davila 2

After 10 rounds, I had this absolutely even with nothing between the two fighters. Over the first 10 rounds, I would expect scorecards to vary and I reckon I'd come up with a slightly different card myself each time. But Pintor came on in the championship rounds, upping his workrate while Davila's slowed a bit and he pulled away to a clear win on my card.

Both fighters showed excellent punch variety and mixed up their attacks from head to body but I woild say Davila focussed more on the head, using his jab to set up the straight right while Pintor focussed more on the body with his main weapons beng left hooks as well as uppercuts, although he had success with the straight right too.

Davila definitely threw more than Pintor over the first two thirds of the fight while Pintor looked like he was landing the more impactful punches, but I don't want to overstate that difference as it was a fight of fine margins with every round closely contested. That changed from about round 12 where Pintor started to clearly land more and rocked Davila's head back on a few occasions. Pintor moved more from that point on and started outlanding Davila who seemed to tire a bit. That was enough to swing things Pintor's way and he deserved the decision in the end.

1 10-9
2 9-10
3 9-10 (good round for Davila who appeared to hurt Pintor)
4 10-9
5 10-10
6 9-10 (close, good in-fighting from both men)
7 10-10 (tough fight to score)
8 10-9
9 10-9 (close)
10 9-10 (close)
11 10-9 (close but Pintor won it with right hands imo)
12 10-9 (Pintor's best round so far)
13 10-9
14 10-9
15 10-9

Pintor 146-141 Davila

 

I think I'm gonna rewatch Pintor-Davila tonight.

 

I had that razor thin. Shows how good Davilla was IMO.

Pintor/Davilla II
9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10 (46-49)
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9 (94-96)
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9 (143-142)

 

I don't disagree with that. The first 10-11 rounds were close. The only thing that I'm sure of is Pintor stepped it up in the championship rounds.

 

Yeah, I noticed. The rounds we disagreed on seemed to be one, five, seven, ten and eleven. Outside of the first, you had all close and two even.

Very good fight, and a good scoring exercise too.

 

Pernell Whitaker v Wilfredo Rivera I

Always heard about the controversial decision in this fight and thought I would check it out, although I probably saw it live but just not recalling.

Round 1: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 2: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Rivera
Round 5: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 6: 10-9 Rivera
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 9: 10-9 Rivera
Round 10: 10-9 Rivera
Round 11: 10-9 Rivera
Round 12: 10-9 Rivera

Total: 116-114 Rivera (actual scores: 116-113 Rivera and two scores of 115-113 and 117-112 both for Whitaker for a split win)

Harold Lederman's score of this fight was 115-113 for Rivera, but we had about 3 rounds differing. Still, Rivera should feel bruised and it wasn't from Whitaker's punches. He won that fight. There is a definite controversy there if anyone wants to check it out.

 

I've been told Whitaker never even lost a round until he fought Felix Trinidad and by that time he was 87 years old and strung-out on cocaine 24/7. Something is off.

 

Whitaker was undefeated (on my cards, never seen Rivera I, nor scored Vazquez although I thought Julio did well there) up until Tito, but he definitely lost rounds. De La Hoya won some, so did McGirt, so did Chavez albeit no more than four for any of them.

 

Marco Antonio Barrera v Erik Morales II

Checked out their second fight and...oh, man! Talk about a toughie to score. Every round was razor close. Neither wished to take the initiative, the chance, the bull by the horns. What the hell, for what it's worth, here is my score in a disappointing return to a classic.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Barrera
Round 4: 10-9 Morales
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Barrera
Round 7: 10-9 Morales
Round 8: 10-9 Barrera
Round 9: 10-9 Barrera
Round 10: 10-9 Morales
Round 11: 10-9 Barrera
Round 12: 10-9 Barrera

Total: 117-114 Barrera (actual scores: 116-112 and two scores of 115-113 all for Barrera)

I felt this bout was simply infuriatingly close and would have been better off a draw. When one or two punches can define a round, any score could be considered reasonable. This was a real letdown for me. I hope their 3rd bout is better.

 

Marco Antonio Barrera v Erik Morales III

As opposed to their second fight - which I found infuriating for their lacking to commit - I found this bout to be outstanding. Also, I found noticeable was my odd yells of "Whoooa!" throughout the fight. Something, again lacking, from their second fight. Anyways, here we go.

Round 1: 10-9 Barrera
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Morales
Round 4: 10-9 Barrera
Round 5: 10-9 Barrera
Round 6: 10-9 Barrera
Round 7: 10-9 Morales
Round 8: 10-9 Morales
Round 9: 10-9 Barrera
Round 10: 10-9 Barrera
Round 11: 10-9 Morales
Round 12: 10-9 Morales

Total: 115-114 Barrera (actual scores: 115-114 and 115-113 both for Barrera and a 114-114 Draw for a majority win for Barrera)

Can't say enough about this fight. Pure action and the scores were all reasonable. Outstanding.

 

Marco Antonio Barrera v Erik Morales 3

Great fight - yes, maybe not as great as their first one but a fitting finale for their series and once again, there wasn't much to split them.

I hedged on a couple of rounds - the 9th and crucially the 12th. Most cards I've seen have Barrera winning the 9th and Morales the 12th, so if I'd gone the same way, I'd have still scored a draw.

I don't begrudge Barrera getting the win but I don't think it conclusively showed that he was really better than Morales. Ultimately, their names will be linked in boxing folklore and no-one will think less of Morales for coming out a 2-1 loser in the series on the official cards.

1 10-9 (good start to the fight and from Barrera)
2 9-10 (terrific action)
3 10-9
4 9-10
5 10-9
6 10-9 (close. Good back and forth action)
7 9-10
8 9-10
9 10-10
10 10-9 (close again)
11 9-10 (excellent action)
12 10-10 (Barrera rallied to take a share of the round imo)

Barrera 115-115 Morales

 

My scored for each fight were, as I recall:

#1: MAB 115-112
#2: EM 115-113
#3: EM 115-113

 

After seeing that William Walker posted this fight I couldn't wait to see it. Here we go scoring on the NY rounds basis.

Federico Thompson v Gaspar Ortega

Round 1: Thompson
Round 2: Ortega
Round 3: Ortega
Round 4: Even
Round 5: Ortega
Round 6: Ortega
Round 7: Ortega
Round 8: Thompson
Round 9: Thompson
Round 10: Thompson

Total: 5-4-1 Ortega (actual scores: 5-3-2, 5-4-1 and 6-3-1 all for Thompson)

After 7 rounds and knowing the result, I was sitting there wondering how the hell they were going to steal this from Ortega. Don Dunphy even mentioned Thompson had the title fight with Benny (Kid) Paret wrapped up unless he lost. I felt Thompson turned it on in the last 3 rounds to make it reasonable, but the fact that the title fight - which was promoted by MSG - was 6 weeks away really looked like a bit of conflict of interest with the decision. Anyways, not to detract from a great fight, these two warriors gave it their all. The 4th round was very interesting in their contrasting styles. Ortega threw the more flamboyant, eye-catching blows that round while Thompson would throw beautiful short hooks on the inside and that can be a bit of a problem to the judge on which is more effective. Anyways, again, a great fight, which I thoroughly enjoyed and I highly recommend.

 

I recently checked out the first fight between Pernell Whitaker and Wilfredo Rivera and felt Rivera deserved the decision. So here I am again checking out the rematch.

Pernell Whitaker v Wilfredo Rivera II

Round 1: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 2: 10-9 Rivera
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Rivera
Round 5: 10-8 Rivera (scores a knockdown. It's a BS knockdown. Whitaker tripped over Rivera's left foot, but it counts)
Round 6: 10-7 Whitaker (scores a knockdown and Rivera loses a point for a low blow - also Rivera scores a KD but it's ruled a slip)
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 11: 10-9 Rivera
Round 12: 10-9 Whitaker

Total: 115-113 Whitaker (actual scores: 115-113, 115-111 and 113-112 all for Whitaker)

It at times was going decent but also bogged down with sloppiness and clinching. But I should mention about rounds 5 & 6. Ref Santore ruled a KD on Whitaker but one could see that Whitaker tripped over Rivera's left boot. He had no place to go but down. The announcing team really missed this thinking it was a slip or legit. But round 6 was really whacky. Whitaker scores a solid KD and the ref compounds it by deducting a point from Rivera. But hold on a second. Rivera then has his back to the ropes and lashes out with a beauty of a straight left and down goes Whitaker. As solid a knockdown as one could see, but the ref rules it a slip. He misses it, Lampley, Merchant, Foreman and Harold misses it and the only replays from the HBO truck is Whitaker's knockdown of Rivera. Oh, well, the KD in the 5th was BS so I guess this is payback for a bad call. But if anyone wants to check it out you'll see what I mean.

 

Matthew Saad Muhammad v Yaqui Lopez 2

An incredible war in two main parts. From round 2 on, Lopez boxed beautifully while Saad encouraged him by staying on the ropes. It all culminated in a round 8 for the ages, the most incredible 3 minutes of action I've seen when Lopez couldn't finish Saad off and by the end of the round Saad was incredibly on the attack. From round 9 on, Saad gradually wore Lopez down and in the 14th, it all finally fell apart for Yaqui as he was dropped four times.

Even without the epic 8th round, this would have been a great fight, but that round puts the fight in the company of the very best fights available on film. As long as there is boxing and there are boxing fans, this fight will be talked about with reverence.

1 10-9
2 9-10
3 9-10
4 10-10
5 9-10
6 9-10 (Saad taking a bit of a pasting)
7 9-10 (close)
8 9-10 (contender for the greatest round ever?)
9 10-9
10 10-9
11 10-9
12 10-9
13 10-9 (another great round but Saad has Lopez hurt)
(124-124)
14 Saad Muhammad TKO Lopez
(Saad puts Lopez down four times before the ref waves it off)

 

FYI guys, I'm gonna be posting on ESB less and less now. Still once in awhile if I see a good thread, but not as much. Classic has gone to utter shit in less than 6 months, and it's just getting worse. There isn't much a point to be there with you guys now regularly posting here.

I urge you guys to invite any and all quality posters from ESB to come here. Feel free to PM them invites.

Let's migrate all of Classic's quality posters to Fightbeat, and let the trolls have ESB.

There's very little QUALITY moderating at ESB - just bannings for absolutely retarded infractions, but no regulation of actual trolling.